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Message: <blockquote data-quote="ClaytonCross" data-source="post: 7343102" data-attributes="member: 6880599">So just to be clear "Min/Maxing" is cutting off stats you don't intend to use and putting everything in "useful" stats to your character. This is done by everyone to some degree simply because you want to be good at one thing and don't care about another. What your players are doing is "power gaming" which is why they want to kill everything in one turn, want stats of 30, and compete to do the most damage.To deal with power gaming at level 3, Here is my suggestion:1. Look at there character sheet find what skills, proficiencies (including tools and instruments), and languages they have.2. Create a dungeon full of traps set above anything they can possibly role BUT put hints, answers to riddles, tests that require them to use those proficiencies, languages, and skills. Put no enemies in the dungeon. At the end of the dungeon, separate a room with a mirror. When they touch the mirror they get sucked into each there own demi plan alone and .... each one sees themselves standing there... role initiative. 3. Have and ancient Copper dragon (Chaotic Good) snatch them out of there current quest and take them to the dungeon. If they back talk it, being Chaotic good it smacks once. If they fight it at level 3.... they may find they new character for next session (Track the damage they do to the dragon, but leave the health blank, what ever their final damage at the end of the battle, double it and that is/was the dragons health). If they disrespect it they may fine they don't have much health to survive the dungeon it just dropped them in. The dragon needs each them to complete the quest (something they will get when they fight themselves at full health at whatever health they have when they get to the mirror, win or lose, don't kill them, just make them face defeat face to face for real.) When they return to the dragon, he nods takes them back to where he got them. They get nothing but xp and confusion. If they back talk the Dragon about not getting a reward... he smacks them with another claw attack for disrespect. (He is saving the world some how and they have been drafted to help him but that does not mean he has to take there crap. Also, use option subdual damage to knock them out to the dragon can knock them to 0 without needing death saves, He knocks them out but he doesn't kill them. Its just a lesson in respect. There is a reason the dragon can't do this but he does have to explain himself to such insignificant beings who have earned no renowned.)Why do this? 1. Making them use their other skills to get though a dungeon is a reminder there is more to D&D than combat damage.2. Making them fight themselves literally makes their own strength there weakness and highlights that if they can do it .... you can do it. 3. Using a Chaotic Good over powered being demand there respect reminds them they can't always just get what they want and if they are "good" back talking all your NPCs then they don't have a leg to stand on trying to say your Chaotic Good character can't treat them like crap while saving the world. On top of that he proves your ability to always win escalation battles.4. End the end they get nothing but XP. This is to highlight the story and experience was its own reward... you don't owe them anything else.This is a lot of work to setup. If you do it, come back with what ever happens. How they handle will tell a lot bout the players. If might fix things, it might just make them mad. If they play an awesome session or 3 and the end result is that they are mad because they didn't rule the world, kill armies of monsters single handed,  and bath in riches .... at level 3 .... I would have to say its who they are and you would be better with other players. They could play an have fun and care a little less about who does the most damage....That just my recommendation since out of game talking didn't work. Best of luck and feel free to alter the formula. Its more a concept then a rule to follow.</blockquote>

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