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Message: <blockquote data-quote="thorgrit" data-source="post: 7345818" data-attributes="member: 61124">It sounds like, fundamentally, the type of game they want to play in, and the type of game you want to run, are two different things. Neither is inherently bad, just incompatible. It might be worthwhile to bring this up, and if a compromise can't be reached, that's okay and nobody's fault.I'm a bit of a character optimizer myself, which is often thrown into the minmax and powergamer types. What I mean when I say that is I'll look through guides when making a character, looking for info on most effective abilities and spells, and take that into consideration when building. Why take a spell that does 3d6 damage when I could have a spell that does 3d8 damage? Because someone calculated the 3d6 one will hit more often due to targeting a different saving throw that's typically lower, and uses a damage type that's resisted less often. That kind of thing.If you can reach a compromise, ask them for help in encounter building. Sounds like they have system mastery and know their characters better, so they should be better equipped to know what would be an appropriate challenge. Good encounters will play to their strengths and weaknesses from time to time.  Look for ways to proactively let their characters feel powerful, and were wise to make the choices they did, if that's what they want. Like in a game I ran, a player took the Sentinel feat at level 1 - so I made sure there were some smart tactical enemies they faced that knew they were going to be on the losing side so would attempt to withdraw and get away - but the guy with Sentinel gets a free hit anyway and stops them. Or when a wizard first gets access to Fireball, a phalanx of heavily armored (but low dexterity save) warriors bunches up to attack, but one word from the mage and they're obliterated. Find weaknesses too, just don't linger there. A character with Heavy Armor Master can laugh off small arrows that do 1d3 damage all day, but that doesn't help them cross a river. They can have +3 flaming greatswords, but can they impress a courtier from another kingdom with their dancing and conversational skills at the ball to convince them to join the war against the necromancers? You can especially play up a weakness one character has if the other has a strength to cover for both of them.Perhaps you can get them to agree to a PHB-only normal-power game, if you can also commit to trying to engage their powergaming such that they don't feel like they have to trick you into it.</blockquote>

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