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Help with giving my players choices that matter
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<blockquote data-quote="delphonso" data-source="post: 7159587" data-attributes="member: 6892015"><p>Thank you all very much for your comments and advice. I've got a bit more to think about. I'm moving countries soon, so we won't be switching back to D&D for quite some time, but when we do I think I have a better idea of what to work with.</p><p></p><p>In my free time, I've been designed a tabletop RPG game on my own. One of the biggest hassles for me right now is making the setting and how much detail I should put into it. I recently played some Shadowrun 5e, and reading that player's handbook nearly killed me. It was deeply fascinating, but so dense in information and detail that I was a bit paralyzed by the amount of rules and how things were <em>supposed</em> to work. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>This is some excellent advice and I really appreciate it. I often treat my players like idiots and spoon-feed them scenarios. I really should expect them to think things through more. As a player I wouldn't want to be treated that way.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yeah, D&D isn't the perfect system for this, but my party enjoys role-playing and I want to improve my ability to improvise. We chose D&D 5E before we chose who the GM would be. One of the reasons we switched to FFG: Star Wars was that it is much better set up for this sort of role-playing. </p><p></p><p>I've been doing my best to keep things open and have even let players tell me what reward they want (which I would adjust to not be game breaking or empower if I think it's too weak). As far as narrative rewards or story rewards such as treasure maps or information, I haven't done much of this and the players haven't mentioned it either. I'll definitely give it a shot. The party has been very willing to give "evil" things a second chance.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yes, excellent. My party often wants to follow all the lines they can. I remember in one adventure, they followed every line I had set for them and basically accomplished 5 quests in one day... They showed up to the neighboring town with a cart full of prisoners (some bandits, a group of goblins, and a dishonest merchant) and handed them over to the local authorities. </p><p></p><p>When I made a mystery where all the lines crossed each other or were opposed, they got incredibly frustrated. Ultimately, I think they liked that adventure but during it they were pulling their hair out.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I'll check out this video when I get a chance. In the campaign we were handling, I had a rough idea of a map in my head, but I chose not to put it to paper, since I find myself too attached to my own world when I do that. One of the things I tried to do was let the party take some narrative control. I think it was from 13th Age, but I would let the party montage their travel. For example:</p><p></p><p>DM: "Player A, as you travel to Fleafletch, you encounter some disturbance on the road. What is it?"</p><p>Player A: "Uhhh... We find a couple travelling merchants trying to get a fallen tree off the road"</p><p>Dm: "Excellent, Player B, how do you help these guys, or do you just choose to watch?"</p><p>Player B: "I'm suspicious of an ambush, so I stay on guard while the others act."</p><p>Player C: "I cast some spells to burn up the tree."</p><p>Player A: "As he's working on that, I start on the other end chopping away with my axe."</p><p>DM: "Great, you've turned the tree to ash and splinters. The merchants thank you with a gift. Player B, what do C and A get?"</p><p>Player B: "They want to keep their wares for the next town, so they give A and C a sack of gold each. Maybe 50 for each player?"</p><p>DM: "Sure, let's make that 75 for both of you."</p><p></p><p>It's really not much but gives the players a little more control than I usually would give out. It also keeps everyone engaged in a situation that their character might not be engaged in. Other times I let them flesh out villages and towns by letting them describe what they see as they walk through town.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I really like this. In the more successful adventures I've had with them, I only had an idea for the beginning and the end, and let the middle grow naturally. It has worked well, except in situations where the players didn't have much drive. I think this was my own fault for not having an interesting enough beginning for the players and their characters. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>And I think this is the most important thing for me to keep in mind. You're right - I take a lot of responsibility for the campaign as a whole, rather than just the setting. Maybe it's just my personality as a control freak. I think it has been hard for me to improve as a DM since I haven't had a lot of experiences of good DMing. My friends are rather imaginative people, and usually have stories they want to share. As players we enjoy observing more than interacting. I guess that's fine at the end of the day if we all feel satisfied, but I know it could be challenging for a different type of player to join. </p><p></p><p>Again, thank you all so much. If you want any more detail, let me know. I think I'll take a long look at where the adventure started and how it got to where it is now, what the players most enjoyed and what needs to be avoided from now on.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="delphonso, post: 7159587, member: 6892015"] Thank you all very much for your comments and advice. I've got a bit more to think about. I'm moving countries soon, so we won't be switching back to D&D for quite some time, but when we do I think I have a better idea of what to work with. In my free time, I've been designed a tabletop RPG game on my own. One of the biggest hassles for me right now is making the setting and how much detail I should put into it. I recently played some Shadowrun 5e, and reading that player's handbook nearly killed me. It was deeply fascinating, but so dense in information and detail that I was a bit paralyzed by the amount of rules and how things were [I]supposed[/I] to work. This is some excellent advice and I really appreciate it. I often treat my players like idiots and spoon-feed them scenarios. I really should expect them to think things through more. As a player I wouldn't want to be treated that way. Yeah, D&D isn't the perfect system for this, but my party enjoys role-playing and I want to improve my ability to improvise. We chose D&D 5E before we chose who the GM would be. One of the reasons we switched to FFG: Star Wars was that it is much better set up for this sort of role-playing. I've been doing my best to keep things open and have even let players tell me what reward they want (which I would adjust to not be game breaking or empower if I think it's too weak). As far as narrative rewards or story rewards such as treasure maps or information, I haven't done much of this and the players haven't mentioned it either. I'll definitely give it a shot. The party has been very willing to give "evil" things a second chance. Yes, excellent. My party often wants to follow all the lines they can. I remember in one adventure, they followed every line I had set for them and basically accomplished 5 quests in one day... They showed up to the neighboring town with a cart full of prisoners (some bandits, a group of goblins, and a dishonest merchant) and handed them over to the local authorities. When I made a mystery where all the lines crossed each other or were opposed, they got incredibly frustrated. Ultimately, I think they liked that adventure but during it they were pulling their hair out. I'll check out this video when I get a chance. In the campaign we were handling, I had a rough idea of a map in my head, but I chose not to put it to paper, since I find myself too attached to my own world when I do that. One of the things I tried to do was let the party take some narrative control. I think it was from 13th Age, but I would let the party montage their travel. For example: DM: "Player A, as you travel to Fleafletch, you encounter some disturbance on the road. What is it?" Player A: "Uhhh... We find a couple travelling merchants trying to get a fallen tree off the road" Dm: "Excellent, Player B, how do you help these guys, or do you just choose to watch?" Player B: "I'm suspicious of an ambush, so I stay on guard while the others act." Player C: "I cast some spells to burn up the tree." Player A: "As he's working on that, I start on the other end chopping away with my axe." DM: "Great, you've turned the tree to ash and splinters. The merchants thank you with a gift. Player B, what do C and A get?" Player B: "They want to keep their wares for the next town, so they give A and C a sack of gold each. Maybe 50 for each player?" DM: "Sure, let's make that 75 for both of you." It's really not much but gives the players a little more control than I usually would give out. It also keeps everyone engaged in a situation that their character might not be engaged in. Other times I let them flesh out villages and towns by letting them describe what they see as they walk through town. I really like this. In the more successful adventures I've had with them, I only had an idea for the beginning and the end, and let the middle grow naturally. It has worked well, except in situations where the players didn't have much drive. I think this was my own fault for not having an interesting enough beginning for the players and their characters. And I think this is the most important thing for me to keep in mind. You're right - I take a lot of responsibility for the campaign as a whole, rather than just the setting. Maybe it's just my personality as a control freak. I think it has been hard for me to improve as a DM since I haven't had a lot of experiences of good DMing. My friends are rather imaginative people, and usually have stories they want to share. As players we enjoy observing more than interacting. I guess that's fine at the end of the day if we all feel satisfied, but I know it could be challenging for a different type of player to join. Again, thank you all so much. If you want any more detail, let me know. I think I'll take a long look at where the adventure started and how it got to where it is now, what the players most enjoyed and what needs to be avoided from now on. [/QUOTE]
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