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Help with Guecubu demon conversion?
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<blockquote data-quote="Quickleaf" data-source="post: 8393295" data-attributes="member: 20323"><p>Working on a write-up for the abyssal realm of Azzagrat, and I wanted an interesting possessor demon. Reading through 3e's <em>Fiendish Codex: Hordes of the Abyss</em>, I read about the <a href="https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Guecubu" target="_blank">guecubu demon </a>inhabiting markets in that realm & hitching themselves to travelers in that market for a ride to the Material Plane. The guecubu are invisible presences that disturb rest, can put creatures to sleep, and possess the unconscious.</p><p></p><p>I tried writing up a conversion, but it was a bit tricky, and I ended up borrowing bits from the ghost, dybbuk, and specter (poltergeist)...even a dash from the AD&D incarnate.<a href="https://www.realmshelps.net/monsters/block/Guecubu" target="_blank"> Here is the original 3e version</a>.</p><p></p><p>A few design questions</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Am I fairly calling this a CR 5 monster? How would you estimate the CR of a possessing creature (if not doubling its effective HP as the DMG suggests? </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">And is the conversion working or are there better ways to implement some of the ideas?</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Is it clear what the 4 "types" of possession do?</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">With the "Torment" possession option, the <em>hex </em>bit doesn't quite synch up with the monster's design (it lacks any attacks in its natural form)... would there be a better implementation?</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Does the monster need more ways to counter its influence / possession?</li> </ul><p></p><p>[SPOILER=My monster maths]</p><p></p><p><strong>Defensive CR 5</strong></p><p>eff HP = 37 * 1.5 damage resist for target CR 5-10 * 2 Possession = 111</p><p>eff AC = 13 + 2 Invisbility + 2 Magic Resistance = 17</p><p></p><p><strong>Offensive CR 5</strong></p><p>DPR 13 Telekinetic Thrust ranged attack</p><p>eff attack = +6 +5 Invisibility = +11</p><p></p><p><strong>Total CR </strong>= (5 + 5) / 2 = 5</p><p>[/SPOILER]</p><p></p><p><strong><span style="font-size: 18px">Guecubu</span></strong></p><p><em>Medium fiend (demon), chaotic evil</em></p><p><strong>Armor Class </strong>13 </p><p><strong>Hit Points </strong>37 (5d8+15) </p><p><strong>Speed </strong>30 ft.</p><p></p><p><strong>STR </strong>6 (-2)<strong> DEX </strong>16 (+3)<strong> CON </strong>16 (+3)<strong> INT </strong>10 (+0)<strong> WIS </strong>15 (+2)<strong> CHA </strong>14 (+2)</p><p></p><p><strong>Skills </strong>Deception +5, Intimidation +5, Perception +5</p><p><strong>Damage Resistances </strong>acid, cold, fire, lightning, thunder; bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing from nonmagical attacks</p><p><strong>Damage Immunities</strong> poison</p><p><strong>Condition Immunities</strong> charmed, exhaustion, frightened, grappled, paralyzed, petrified, poisoned, prone, restrained</p><p><strong>Senses </strong>darkvision 120 ft., passive Perception 15</p><p><strong>Languages </strong>Abyssal, Common, telepathy 120 ft.</p><p><strong>Challenge </strong>5 (1,800 XP) <strong>Proficiency Bonus </strong>+3</p><p></p><p><strong><em>Haunting Aura (natural form only). </em></strong>Each beast and humanoid attempting to take a short or long rest within 60 feet of the guecubu must succeed a DC 13 Wisdom saving throw or gain no benefit from the rest. The creature is wracked by unnerving emotions and haunting shadows in its peripheral vision.</p><p></p><p><strong><em>Incorporeal Movement. </em></strong>The guecubu can move through other creatures and objects as if they were difficult terrain. It takes 5 (1d10) force damage if it ends its turn inside an object.</p><p></p><p><strong><em>Invisibility. </em></strong>The guecubu is invisible.</p><p></p><p><strong><em>Magic Resistance. </em></strong>The guecubu has advantage on saving throws against spells and other magical effects.</p><p></p><p><strong>ACTIONS</strong></p><p><strong></strong></p><p><strong><em>Somnolent Touch (natural form only). </em></strong>A creature within 5 feet of the guecubu must succeed a DC 13 Wisdom saving throw or its Charisma score is reduced by 1d4. If this reduces the target’s Charisma to 0, it falls unconscious and automatically fails its saving throws against possession. Otherwise, the reduction lasts until the target finishes a short or long rest.</p><p>...If the target fails this saving throw by 5 or more, it is magically put to sleep, falling unconsious for 1 hour, or until it takes damage, or another creature takes an action to shake it awake.</p><p></p><p><strong><em>Telekinetic Thrust. </em></strong>The guecubu targets a creature or unattended object within 30 feet of it. A creature must be Medium or smaller to be affected by this magic, and an object can weigh up to 150 pounds.</p><p>...If the target is a creature, the guecubu makes a Charisma check contested by the target’s Strength check. If the guecubu wins, it hurls the target up to 60 feet in any direction, including upward. If the target then comes into contact with a hard surface or heavy object, the target takes 1d6 bludgeoning damage per 10 feet moved, to a maximum of 21 (6d6) bludgeoning damage.</p><p>...If the target is an object that isn’t being worn or carried, the guecubu hurls it up to 60 feet in any direction. The guecubu can use the object as a ranged weapon, attacking one creature along the object’s path (+6 to hit) and dealing 13 (3d8) bludgeoning damage on a hit.</p><p></p><p><strong><em>Possess Sleeper (Recharge 6). </em></strong>One unconscious humanoid or beast which is Large or smaller that the guecubu can see within 5 feet of it must succeed a DC 13 Charisma saving throw or be possessed by the guecubu; the guecubu disappears and the target is incapacitated and loses control of its body. The guecubu now controls the body, and chooses the form the possession takes: Control, Dark Alliance, Soul Rider, or Torment.</p><p>...The guecubu can’t be targeted by any attack, spell, or other effect, except those that target fiends specifically. It retains its alignment, Intelligence, Wisdom, Charisma, telepathy, and immunity to being charmed and frightened. It otherwise uses the possessed target’s statistics, gaining access to its knowledge and proficiencies, but not its class features, if any.</p><p>...The possession lasts until the body drops to 0 hit points, the guecubu ends its possession using a bonus action, or the guecubu is turned or forced out by an effect like the <em>dispel evil and good </em>spell. When the possession ends, the guecubu reappears in an unoccupied space within 5 feet of the creature. The target is immune to the guecubu’s possession for 24 hours after succeeding on the saving throw or after the possession ends.</p><p></p><p> <strong>Control: </strong>The host has no recollection of events.</p><p></p><p> <strong>Dark Alliance: </strong>The host recalls everything clearly, the guecubu and its host are in telepathic contact, and the guecubu may choose to grant the host temporary control of its body. Additionally, the guecubu can cast <em>enhance ability </em>(Charisma) on its host at will.</p><p></p><p> <strong>Soul Rider: </strong>The host retains control of itself for the time being and does not realize it has been possessed. However, at any time, the guecubu may attempt to assert its control, requiring the target to succeed a DC 13 Charisma saving throw or the guecubu gains control. Even if the target succeeds its saving throw, the guecubu remains possessing its host.</p><p></p><p> <strong>Torment: </strong>The host only vaguely recalls events while possessed as if they were a nightmare. After the possession ends, the host must succeed a DC 13 Intelligence saving throw or suffer long-term madness for 24 hours (roll 1d100 on the table in the DMG pg. 260). While the creature suffers this madness, the guecubu can cast <em>hex </em>(Charisma) upon the creature at will.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Quickleaf, post: 8393295, member: 20323"] Working on a write-up for the abyssal realm of Azzagrat, and I wanted an interesting possessor demon. Reading through 3e's [I]Fiendish Codex: Hordes of the Abyss[/I], I read about the [URL='https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Guecubu']guecubu demon [/URL]inhabiting markets in that realm & hitching themselves to travelers in that market for a ride to the Material Plane. The guecubu are invisible presences that disturb rest, can put creatures to sleep, and possess the unconscious. I tried writing up a conversion, but it was a bit tricky, and I ended up borrowing bits from the ghost, dybbuk, and specter (poltergeist)...even a dash from the AD&D incarnate.[URL='https://www.realmshelps.net/monsters/block/Guecubu'] Here is the original 3e version[/URL]. A few design questions [LIST] [*]Am I fairly calling this a CR 5 monster? How would you estimate the CR of a possessing creature (if not doubling its effective HP as the DMG suggests? [*]And is the conversion working or are there better ways to implement some of the ideas? [*]Is it clear what the 4 "types" of possession do? [*]With the "Torment" possession option, the [I]hex [/I]bit doesn't quite synch up with the monster's design (it lacks any attacks in its natural form)... would there be a better implementation? [*]Does the monster need more ways to counter its influence / possession? [/LIST] [SPOILER=My monster maths] [B]Defensive CR 5[/B] eff HP = 37 * 1.5 damage resist for target CR 5-10 * 2 Possession = 111 eff AC = 13 + 2 Invisbility + 2 Magic Resistance = 17 [B]Offensive CR 5[/B] DPR 13 Telekinetic Thrust ranged attack eff attack = +6 +5 Invisibility = +11 [B]Total CR [/B]= (5 + 5) / 2 = 5 [/SPOILER] [B][SIZE=5]Guecubu[/SIZE][/B] [I]Medium fiend (demon), chaotic evil[/I] [B]Armor Class [/B]13 [B]Hit Points [/B]37 (5d8+15) [B]Speed [/B]30 ft. [B]STR [/B]6 (-2)[B] DEX [/B]16 (+3)[B] CON [/B]16 (+3)[B] INT [/B]10 (+0)[B] WIS [/B]15 (+2)[B] CHA [/B]14 (+2) [B]Skills [/B]Deception +5, Intimidation +5, Perception +5 [B]Damage Resistances [/B]acid, cold, fire, lightning, thunder; bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing from nonmagical attacks [B]Damage Immunities[/B] poison [B]Condition Immunities[/B] charmed, exhaustion, frightened, grappled, paralyzed, petrified, poisoned, prone, restrained [B]Senses [/B]darkvision 120 ft., passive Perception 15 [B]Languages [/B]Abyssal, Common, telepathy 120 ft. [B]Challenge [/B]5 (1,800 XP) [B]Proficiency Bonus [/B]+3 [B][I]Haunting Aura (natural form only). [/I][/B]Each beast and humanoid attempting to take a short or long rest within 60 feet of the guecubu must succeed a DC 13 Wisdom saving throw or gain no benefit from the rest. The creature is wracked by unnerving emotions and haunting shadows in its peripheral vision. [B][I]Incorporeal Movement. [/I][/B]The guecubu can move through other creatures and objects as if they were difficult terrain. It takes 5 (1d10) force damage if it ends its turn inside an object. [B][I]Invisibility. [/I][/B]The guecubu is invisible. [B][I]Magic Resistance. [/I][/B]The guecubu has advantage on saving throws against spells and other magical effects. [B]ACTIONS [I]Somnolent Touch (natural form only). [/I][/B]A creature within 5 feet of the guecubu must succeed a DC 13 Wisdom saving throw or its Charisma score is reduced by 1d4. If this reduces the target’s Charisma to 0, it falls unconscious and automatically fails its saving throws against possession. Otherwise, the reduction lasts until the target finishes a short or long rest. ...If the target fails this saving throw by 5 or more, it is magically put to sleep, falling unconsious for 1 hour, or until it takes damage, or another creature takes an action to shake it awake. [B][I]Telekinetic Thrust. [/I][/B]The guecubu targets a creature or unattended object within 30 feet of it. A creature must be Medium or smaller to be affected by this magic, and an object can weigh up to 150 pounds. ...If the target is a creature, the guecubu makes a Charisma check contested by the target’s Strength check. If the guecubu wins, it hurls the target up to 60 feet in any direction, including upward. If the target then comes into contact with a hard surface or heavy object, the target takes 1d6 bludgeoning damage per 10 feet moved, to a maximum of 21 (6d6) bludgeoning damage. ...If the target is an object that isn’t being worn or carried, the guecubu hurls it up to 60 feet in any direction. The guecubu can use the object as a ranged weapon, attacking one creature along the object’s path (+6 to hit) and dealing 13 (3d8) bludgeoning damage on a hit. [B][I]Possess Sleeper (Recharge 6). [/I][/B]One unconscious humanoid or beast which is Large or smaller that the guecubu can see within 5 feet of it must succeed a DC 13 Charisma saving throw or be possessed by the guecubu; the guecubu disappears and the target is incapacitated and loses control of its body. The guecubu now controls the body, and chooses the form the possession takes: Control, Dark Alliance, Soul Rider, or Torment. ...The guecubu can’t be targeted by any attack, spell, or other effect, except those that target fiends specifically. It retains its alignment, Intelligence, Wisdom, Charisma, telepathy, and immunity to being charmed and frightened. It otherwise uses the possessed target’s statistics, gaining access to its knowledge and proficiencies, but not its class features, if any. ...The possession lasts until the body drops to 0 hit points, the guecubu ends its possession using a bonus action, or the guecubu is turned or forced out by an effect like the [I]dispel evil and good [/I]spell. When the possession ends, the guecubu reappears in an unoccupied space within 5 feet of the creature. The target is immune to the guecubu’s possession for 24 hours after succeeding on the saving throw or after the possession ends. [B]Control: [/B]The host has no recollection of events. [B]Dark Alliance: [/B]The host recalls everything clearly, the guecubu and its host are in telepathic contact, and the guecubu may choose to grant the host temporary control of its body. Additionally, the guecubu can cast [I]enhance ability [/I](Charisma) on its host at will. [B]Soul Rider: [/B]The host retains control of itself for the time being and does not realize it has been possessed. However, at any time, the guecubu may attempt to assert its control, requiring the target to succeed a DC 13 Charisma saving throw or the guecubu gains control. Even if the target succeeds its saving throw, the guecubu remains possessing its host. [B]Torment: [/B]The host only vaguely recalls events while possessed as if they were a nightmare. After the possession ends, the host must succeed a DC 13 Intelligence saving throw or suffer long-term madness for 24 hours (roll 1d100 on the table in the DMG pg. 260). While the creature suffers this madness, the guecubu can cast [I]hex [/I](Charisma) upon the creature at will. [/QUOTE]
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