Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Help with math: how do you not fall behind?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="MrMyth" data-source="post: 4506781" data-attributes="member: 61155"><p>From level 1-30, monster's Defenses will rise by 29 points. </p><p>A PCs attack will rise by 25 points from default bonuses. </p><p> </p><p>Other possible bonuses: </p><p>Paragon Paths (Kensai, Battlefield Archer, etc)</p><p>Epic Destinies (Demigod)</p><p>Conditional Bonuses from Feats (Nimble Blade, Hellfire Blood, Student of the Sword, Back to the Wall, Elven Precision, Precise Hunter, Moradin's Resolve, Action Surge, etc)</p><p>Conditional Bonuses from items (Berserker Weapons, Helm of the Eagle, Headband of Intellect, Totemic Belt, Opal Ring of Remembrance, etc)</p><p>Greater ability to acquire Combat Advantage (through Stealth, items, powers, etc)</p><p>More bonuses from Powers, both on ones own, and through allies, especially Leaders - and many Powers that reduce the enemy's Defenses as well. </p><p>More access to Weapon powers that target Non-AC Defenses. </p><p> </p><p>Now, I don't think all of these translate fully into a +5 bonus for every character. But I'd say it is probably worth +2 to +3 to hit, in total. By level 30, every character is going to have a number of tricks to help them hit, and they will be constantly seeing buffs thrown around that give sizable bonuses to hit. </p><p> </p><p>In addition to the various bonuses they are gaining via all this, they are also much more potent - more status effects, more multi-target attacks, and just more Encounter and Daily Powers overall. The level 1 character has 2 At Wills, 1 Encounter and 1 Daily Power. By level 10, he has 2 At Wills, 3 Encounter, 3 Daily and 3 Utility Powers. By level 20, he has 2 At Wills, 4 Encounter, 4 Daily, and 5 Utility Powers. By level 30, he has gained Epic Destiny features that can throw these guidelines out the window - in addition to now being able to crit more often, triggering all manner of special effects, and use more powers from magic items that are - by level 30 - very, very effective. </p><p> </p><p>So I'd say that difference counts as another +2... in some ways, I think, the math was balanced around the high-level play, and then they gave some extra bonuses to low-level play to make up for the lack of options - an average high-level character is designed to generally hit half the time, while a first level character will hit more often (to make up for being much more reliant on At Will Powers.)</p><p> </p><p>From what I can tell, the math isn't <em>quite</em> perfect (and that's even with making the assumptions I made earlier, which are admittedly somewhat arbitrary.) I'd say there is a +1 missing in their somewhere, putting level 30 characters ever so slightly behind - especially since they aren't likely to face average level 30 monsters, but instead Ancient Dragons and the like, whose Defenses will be above average. On the other hand, having that small extra step of difficulty in the end-game isn't entirely unreasonable - but I suspect those who have played their characters from levels 1 to 30, and have grown skilled at using them as effectively as possible, will be up to the challenge.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="MrMyth, post: 4506781, member: 61155"] From level 1-30, monster's Defenses will rise by 29 points. A PCs attack will rise by 25 points from default bonuses. Other possible bonuses: Paragon Paths (Kensai, Battlefield Archer, etc) Epic Destinies (Demigod) Conditional Bonuses from Feats (Nimble Blade, Hellfire Blood, Student of the Sword, Back to the Wall, Elven Precision, Precise Hunter, Moradin's Resolve, Action Surge, etc) Conditional Bonuses from items (Berserker Weapons, Helm of the Eagle, Headband of Intellect, Totemic Belt, Opal Ring of Remembrance, etc) Greater ability to acquire Combat Advantage (through Stealth, items, powers, etc) More bonuses from Powers, both on ones own, and through allies, especially Leaders - and many Powers that reduce the enemy's Defenses as well. More access to Weapon powers that target Non-AC Defenses. Now, I don't think all of these translate fully into a +5 bonus for every character. But I'd say it is probably worth +2 to +3 to hit, in total. By level 30, every character is going to have a number of tricks to help them hit, and they will be constantly seeing buffs thrown around that give sizable bonuses to hit. In addition to the various bonuses they are gaining via all this, they are also much more potent - more status effects, more multi-target attacks, and just more Encounter and Daily Powers overall. The level 1 character has 2 At Wills, 1 Encounter and 1 Daily Power. By level 10, he has 2 At Wills, 3 Encounter, 3 Daily and 3 Utility Powers. By level 20, he has 2 At Wills, 4 Encounter, 4 Daily, and 5 Utility Powers. By level 30, he has gained Epic Destiny features that can throw these guidelines out the window - in addition to now being able to crit more often, triggering all manner of special effects, and use more powers from magic items that are - by level 30 - very, very effective. So I'd say that difference counts as another +2... in some ways, I think, the math was balanced around the high-level play, and then they gave some extra bonuses to low-level play to make up for the lack of options - an average high-level character is designed to generally hit half the time, while a first level character will hit more often (to make up for being much more reliant on At Will Powers.) From what I can tell, the math isn't [I]quite[/I] perfect (and that's even with making the assumptions I made earlier, which are admittedly somewhat arbitrary.) I'd say there is a +1 missing in their somewhere, putting level 30 characters ever so slightly behind - especially since they aren't likely to face average level 30 monsters, but instead Ancient Dragons and the like, whose Defenses will be above average. On the other hand, having that small extra step of difficulty in the end-game isn't entirely unreasonable - but I suspect those who have played their characters from levels 1 to 30, and have grown skilled at using them as effectively as possible, will be up to the challenge. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Help with math: how do you not fall behind?
Top