Help with new Meta Magic Feats

[Banshee16]

I'm seeking assistance with two new metamagic feats.

The first one would be similar to the "Invert Weave" feat from Wheel of time.....basically, a spellcaster could cast a spell that does not detect as magic. This would give a few advantages:

1-Spells being cast wouldn't radiate as magic.
2-Spells that the wizard cast onto a subject (whether himself, or a target) would not detect as magic. Thus, if the wizard is casting fireball, another wizard standing nearby wouldn't detect the effect. Alternatively, if a wizard casts Alter Self on himself, it wouldn't detect as magic while in effect....or if he cast Polymorph Other onto an opponent to turn them into a tree, they wouldn't detect as enchanted.

How many levels would this likely add to the spell?

The second feat would be a Spell Trap type feat. The basic idea is that a wizard could cast a spell, and if he adds the feat to the spell, then while that spell is in effect, if another caster tries to dispel or change the magic, they get hit by it as well. Thus, if a wizard cast Bestow Curse on a character, and applied the feat, if another caster tried to dispel the spell, they themselves would have to make a save, or now be affected by Bestow Curse as well (and the original Bestow Curse isn't dispelled).

The third feat would be one that raises the effect caster level of a spell, with respect to resisting dispel magic. Thus, if a wizard has cast Bull's Strength on himself, and uses the feat, instead of it being a 10th lvl effect (he's a 10th lvl wizard), it's actually dispelled as if cast by a lvl 12 wizard (for instance).

Any ideas of how many levels these feats should add to the spells they're affecting? Do they seem like interesting feats that could be useful?

Banshee

 

[griff_goodbeard]

I'm seeking assistance with two new metamagic feats.

The first one would be similar to the "Invert Weave" feat from Wheel of time.....basically, a spellcaster could cast a spell that does not detect as magic. This would give a few advantages:

1-Spells being cast wouldn't radiate as magic.
2-Spells that the wizard cast onto a subject (whether himself, or a target) would not detect as magic. Thus, if the wizard is casting fireball, another wizard standing nearby wouldn't detect the effect. Alternatively, if a wizard casts Alter Self on himself, it wouldn't detect as magic while in effect....or if he cast Polymorph Other onto an opponent to turn them into a tree, they wouldn't detect as enchanted.

How many levels would this likely add to the spell?

What happen's if you use this feat on the invisibility spell, then are viewed with true seeing or see invisibility?

The second feat would be a Spell Trap type feat. The basic idea is that a wizard could cast a spell, and if he adds the feat to the spell, then while that spell is in effect, if another caster tries to dispel or change the magic, they get hit by it as well. Thus, if a wizard cast Bestow Curse on a character, and applied the feat, if another caster tried to dispel the spell, they themselves would have to make a save, or now be affected by Bestow Curse as well (and the original Bestow Curse isn't dispelled).

Feels like +2 to me.

The third feat would be one that raises the effect caster level of a spell, with respect to resisting dispel magic. Thus, if a wizard has cast Bull's Strength on himself, and uses the feat, instead of it being a 10th lvl effect (he's a 10th lvl wizard), it's actually dispelled as if cast by a lvl 12 wizard (for instance).

Any ideas of how many levels these feats should add to the spells they're affecting? Do they seem like interesting feats that could be useful?

Banshee

+1 spell level for +2CL seems about right.

 

[Banshee16]

What happen's if you use this feat on the invisibility spell, then are viewed with true seeing or see invisibility?

Ordinarily, if you use invisibility, and someone casts detect magic, AFAIK, they'll know there's a spell active, but won't know exactly where.

If you used this feat, detect magic wouldn't show any magic aura. However, if a caster decided to cast either See Invisibility or True Seeing, they would see the caster.......this feat just prevents the caster's spell from radiating magic....it doesn't make his spells immune to being dispelled etc.

Banshee

 

[Kat']

If you used this feat, detect magic wouldn't show any magic aura.

Yeah, well... how many characters go without any magic items at all*? They would still be detected.

*VoP ones, I know...

 

[akbearfoot]

I'd say +1 spell level for purposes of not radiating magic...That would only apply to basic magic sensing abilities. Analyze dweomer, arcane sight and other higher level divinations should still work.

This would be a good trick to keep illusions from being detected in cities etc...who walks around with true seeing on all the time?

I would also say +1 spell level for a 'rebounding' effect. The spell takes effect on a caster who attempts to dispel the spell....I would say that should only work if the caster succeeds in dispelling it....otherwise it should stay on the original target. If you want it to be able to effect both casters then I would say +2. Kinda an interesting notion that this could theoretically become spread around like a plague if enough people failed to dispel it one after another and failed their saves.


For only resisting dispelling attempts, I'd say +1 spell level should be worth a +3 maybe even +4 effective CL. You're sacrificing a higher level slot, and it really depends on the campaign on wether or not you're going to get dispelled very often....most games I play in, if anyone gets their christmas tree buffs dispelled, it's time to flee and rest to recast buffs. Or alternately for a little more flavor, make it a general feat called soulbonded magic or something. whenever they cast any spell they can sacrifice from 1-6 hitpoints that can't be healed as long as the spell is in effect. Each hitpoint sacrificed this way gives +1 effective CL to resist dispelling. If the spell is dispelled, the caster regains his 'essence' and can then heal his hitpoints normally. Cool side effect on long duration spells is the caster would know if someone was meddling with his enchantments. That way you could really strengthen a spell you absolutely wanted to keep going, but at a fair cost.

Although I think it would be fair to have a general feat that gave you +2 to resist dispelling on ALL your spells...I think there is one actually (spell girding maybe?)

 

[Banshee16]

Yeah, well... how many characters go without any magic items at all*? They would still be detected.

*VoP ones, I know...

So maybe it's the start of a feat tree. The first one hides your spells......but if you're carrying magic items (likely), they would be detected. The second feat requires the first, and allows you to hide your entire magic aura for a certain length of time.

But the first feat would still do things like keep your Dominate Person spell from being detected, so the king doesn't know his guard has been taken over by an enemy, for instance.

Banshee

 

[Banshee16]

I'd say +1 spell level for purposes of not radiating magic...That would only apply to basic magic sensing abilities. Analyze dweomer, arcane sight and other higher level divinations should still work.

This would be a good trick to keep illusions from being detected in cities etc...who walks around with true seeing on all the time?

I would also say +1 spell level for a 'rebounding' effect. The spell takes effect on a caster who attempts to dispel the spell....I would say that should only work if the caster succeeds in dispelling it....otherwise it should stay on the original target. If you want it to be able to effect both casters then I would say +2. Kinda an interesting notion that this could theoretically become spread around like a plague if enough people failed to dispel it one after another and failed their saves.


For only resisting dispelling attempts, I'd say +1 spell level should be worth a +3 maybe even +4 effective CL. You're sacrificing a higher level slot, and it really depends on the campaign on wether or not you're going to get dispelled very often....most games I play in, if anyone gets their christmas tree buffs dispelled, it's time to flee and rest to recast buffs. Or alternately for a little more flavor, make it a general feat called soulbonded magic or something. whenever they cast any spell they can sacrifice from 1-6 hitpoints that can't be healed as long as the spell is in effect. Each hitpoint sacrificed this way gives +1 effective CL to resist dispelling. If the spell is dispelled, the caster regains his 'essence' and can then heal his hitpoints normally. Cool side effect on long duration spells is the caster would know if someone was meddling with his enchantments. That way you could really strengthen a spell you absolutely wanted to keep going, but at a fair cost.

Although I think it would be fair to have a general feat that gave you +2 to resist dispelling on ALL your spells...I think there is one actually (spell girding maybe?)

I'd probably put a limit on the number of times the spell trap could hit people who are trying to dispel it....maybe 1 time for each point of spellcasting ability modifier?

And if you wanted to limit it further, maybe have an opposed roll to see if someone trying to dispel the magic is hit by the trap? Or just leave it as a saving throw.

Banshee

 

[szilard]

I'm seeking assistance with two new metamagic feats.

The first one would be similar to the "Invert Weave" feat from Wheel of time.....basically, a spellcaster could cast a spell that does not detect as magic. This would give a few advantages:

1-Spells being cast wouldn't radiate as magic.
2-Spells that the wizard cast onto a subject (whether himself, or a target) would not detect as magic. Thus, if the wizard is casting fireball, another wizard standing nearby wouldn't detect the effect. Alternatively, if a wizard casts Alter Self on himself, it wouldn't detect as magic while in effect....or if he cast Polymorph Other onto an opponent to turn them into a tree, they wouldn't detect as enchanted.

How many levels would this likely add to the spell?

Essentially tacking on a limited-use Nystul's Magic Aura? +1

The second feat would be a Spell Trap type feat. The basic idea is that a wizard could cast a spell, and if he adds the feat to the spell, then while that spell is in effect, if another caster tries to dispel or change the magic, they get hit by it as well. Thus, if a wizard cast Bestow Curse on a character, and applied the feat, if another caster tried to dispel the spell, they themselves would have to make a save, or now be affected by Bestow Curse as well (and the original Bestow Curse isn't dispelled).

I'm confused. Does this make the spell completely immune to Dispel Magic?

The third feat would be one that raises the effect caster level of a spell, with respect to resisting dispel magic. Thus, if a wizard has cast Bull's Strength on himself, and uses the feat, instead of it being a 10th lvl effect (he's a 10th lvl wizard), it's actually dispelled as if cast by a lvl 12 wizard (for instance).

Hmmm... Does this bypass the normal maximum for Dispel Magic?

-Stuart

 

[Dinkeldog]

Moved to House Rules

 

[Banshee16]

Essentially tacking on a limited-use Nystul's Magic Aura? +1

Yes, this is kind of it. It's limited to particular spells. There's a limitation that I hadn't thought of though....if a caster has a spell that uses the feat, and doesn't detect magic, then he might still be revealed by his items, which have an aura. So either this feat would need to be changed to encompass items, or maybe be the first in a small feat chain, with the second being responsible for hiding the items.

I'm confused. Does this make the spell completely immune to Dispel Magic?

No, the trap isn't immune to dispel magic. But if someone *tries* to dispel magic, they trigger the trap.

So, let's say a wizard uses the spelltrap feat on a confusion spell, and casts it on your party. The rogue and fighter both fail their saves, the cleric doesn't. When the cleric tries to cast dispel magic on the fighter, to remove the confusion effect, the cleric triggers the trap, and himself has to now save (again) or suffer the effects of the spell himself. If he fails his save and is affected, the dispel magic won't work.

So he has to try casting h is dispel. Save vs. trap. If he passes that save, he makes his dispel check to life the confusion spell off his target.

Hmmm... Does this bypass the normal maximum for Dispel Magic?
-Stuart

Yes, I think it would. The intent of the feat is to make a magic really difficult to dispel...sort of like a "Reinforce Spell" effect.

I think that a feat that does nothing in terms of giving the spell more power *except* make it harder to dispel shouldn't have too much of a modifier...the suggestions of +1 for 2 lvls gained makes a certain amount of sense.

Banshee