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<blockquote data-quote="Joral" data-source="post: 220882" data-attributes="member: 5129">I was thinking along these lines too and looking at the celestial/fiendish templates a shifter wouldn't get much more over a normal version of the animal other than resistances to certain energy types.&nbsp; As the Smite evil/good and the damage reduction are both supernatural abilities.&nbsp; However I could see a GM ruling that you add the challenge rating modifier to the hit dice for determining if you could assume a templated form.&nbsp; +1 for celestial/fiendish, +2 for Half-dragon and so on.&nbsp; Oh and I totally agree that you have to meet the requirements for both forms, magical beasts for celestial/fiendish animals, dragons for Half-dragons, Outsiders for Half-fiends/half-celestial, and Undead for Ghost, Vampire and Lich.If and when I play this character I'll be bringing him or her into an advanced party.&nbsp; Any GMs have thoughts on a fair way of determining familiarity of creatures based on character knowledge?&nbsp; Just to be safe Ill probably have lots of ranks in KNowledge (nature) with some cross class ranks in KNowledge(arcana) and Knowledge(The Planes) If I can choose Ill take the Remorhaz just so I can eat my foes and burn them alive within me bwahahahaha.&nbsp; By the way this character will probably be CN if you hadn't guessed.Only creature I can find with the trait &quot;amorphous&quot; is the Gibbering Mouther and yes on that it is an (Ex) ability however for Oozes and elementals it list it as part of the &quot;type&quot; which wild shape doesn't change ( I don't take the type ooze just a humanoid in ooze form) but I think with the gibbering mouther as an example it might be understood that amorphous should be understood as an (ex) ability for these types and should be confered when changing into one.&nbsp; Really?&nbsp; I've not seen the MotW errata yet and I really didn't think this was a broken ability that needed it.&nbsp; Like I already mentioned most people I've talked to think the class is weak because you give up all your spells just to have a limited shape change on all the time.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Joral, post: 220882, member: 5129"] I was thinking along these lines too and looking at the celestial/fiendish templates a shifter wouldn't get much more over a normal version of the animal other than resistances to certain energy types. As the Smite evil/good and the damage reduction are both supernatural abilities. However I could see a GM ruling that you add the challenge rating modifier to the hit dice for determining if you could assume a templated form. +1 for celestial/fiendish, +2 for Half-dragon and so on. Oh and I totally agree that you have to meet the requirements for both forms, magical beasts for celestial/fiendish animals, dragons for Half-dragons, Outsiders for Half-fiends/half-celestial, and Undead for Ghost, Vampire and Lich. If and when I play this character I'll be bringing him or her into an advanced party. Any GMs have thoughts on a fair way of determining familiarity of creatures based on character knowledge? Just to be safe Ill probably have lots of ranks in KNowledge (nature) with some cross class ranks in KNowledge (arcana) and Knowledge(The Planes) If I can choose Ill take the Remorhaz just so I can eat my foes and burn them alive within me bwahahahaha. By the way this character will probably be CN if you hadn't guessed. Only creature I can find with the trait "amorphous" is the Gibbering Mouther and yes on that it is an (Ex) ability however for Oozes and elementals it list it as part of the "type" which wild shape doesn't change ( I don't take the type ooze just a humanoid in ooze form) but I think with the gibbering mouther as an example it might be understood that amorphous should be understood as an (ex) ability for these types and should be confered when changing into one. Really? I've not seen the MotW errata yet and I really didn't think this was a broken ability that needed it. Like I already mentioned most people I've talked to think the class is weak because you give up all your spells just to have a limited shape change on all the time. [/QUOTE]

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