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<blockquote data-quote="Igor Mendonça" data-source="post: 8287411" data-attributes="member: 6941694"><p>[USER=74672]@Jonathan Tweet[/USER] is one of the most influential authors of the modern RPG is many ways. And he gis saying that "Rob Heinsoo did most of the classes" of 13th Age, so he is a RPG genius by proxy, because 13th Age is a work of (two) genius(es).</p><p></p><p>And it's funny, because when I saw the premise in the post ("<em>Since most of their power (healing) helps other characters, it’s power that doesn’t feel cool</em>"), my immediate answer would be 13th Age's Cleric.</p><p></p><p>One of the underrated innovations I saw in 13th Age was its class design. I say underrated, because what I see and read when people talk about 13th Age is mostly its Icon system and its rules light approach to D&D. Fine! These are really interesting. But there are other superb design insights there that at least myself didn't find people talking about.</p><p></p><p>In the book, they say the classes are different aiming complexity and new players. So the Barbarian is the simplest and straightforward class to play, fighters and bards are middle ground and wizards and rogues are the most complex (if you set aside the druid...). But calling it differences in complexity is a huge understatement! I feel each class almost as if they were different games!! </p><p></p><p>Barbarian is a class that almost doesn't gain anything new, making the player feel stable within a gameplay that involves rolling two dice most of the time. If he, the player, needs to roll only one die, something is probably wrong with her, the character, because she is not raging in a battle. And the critical hit happens both rolling 20 and hitting with both dice - it's an almost "number of successes" game.</p><p></p><p>Meanwhile, the fighter is dedicated into probabilities through his die. The d20 roll for the fighter is far from just success/fail rate, because each roll can activate different abilities, thanks to the flexible attacks. Acquiring new maneuvers is not only about dealing more damage is a specialized attack, but a myriad of different effects that might happen. If someone is feeling his fighter is too random because of the flexible attacks, it's because this player is not accepting the non-binary structure of his fighter - she is from a different class and needs to be refined. The fighter in 13th Age is the all-out war soldier, which is trained enough to have lots of maneuvers, but is fighting unruly and dirty combats, in which finding spots to use those maneuvers is a mixture of thinking and chance.</p><p></p><p>The rogue is not about number of successes, nor its a non-binary class. Rogue is about sequence. She needs to keep the momentum flowing, so she needs to guarantee that her strikes will follow her rythm. Hide in plain sight in the first round; hit in the flank in the second; hit in the frnt in the third... until you find the moment to strike, even if it means losing all that momentum she gathered. It's something like Fate characters, accumulating aspects until is the right moment; as if the inspiration in 5ed is the most important thing and you need to find a way to keep it, otherwise you lose it without spending its powers.</p><p></p><p><strong>In this whole context</strong>, the cleric is the class that uses multiple actions. The quick action (similar to the 5ed's bonus action) is the most important feature for the cleric, because most of his spells use it. So the cleric is an able warrior, hitting the enemy with one action and helping the other player with another. She also has domain powers that could be focused on giving rules exception. With these two features, the cleric gains the possibility to help and act each time it's her player's turn. If the class itself in the book in not doing it alright, it isn't a matter of the class design but the class list of options in the book, which is really easy to improve.</p><p></p><p>You can write new games based in these classes: number of successes like Exalted; non-binary results like Genesys; accumulating the effects like Fate; multiple actions like Storyteller. And 13th Age has tiny pockets of these games in each of its classes.</p><p></p><p>I usually like crunchier games, like Pathfinder. And what make me fell in love with 13th Age is far from its streamlined rules I always complement with crunchier alternatives, like feeling it with skill sets. And has nothing with Icon rules, which I limit the use during play because I suck at improvisation, and it took me years to get used to. XD</p><p></p><p>So that's it. I think I just used a simple commentary to heavily praise 13th Age. And didn't even mention the escalation die... Yep, that's it. </p><p></p><p>Paz!</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Igor Mendonça, post: 8287411, member: 6941694"] [USER=74672]@Jonathan Tweet[/USER] is one of the most influential authors of the modern RPG is many ways. And he gis saying that "Rob Heinsoo did most of the classes" of 13th Age, so he is a RPG genius by proxy, because 13th Age is a work of (two) genius(es). And it's funny, because when I saw the premise in the post ("[I]Since most of their power (healing) helps other characters, it’s power that doesn’t feel cool[/I]"), my immediate answer would be 13th Age's Cleric. One of the underrated innovations I saw in 13th Age was its class design. I say underrated, because what I see and read when people talk about 13th Age is mostly its Icon system and its rules light approach to D&D. Fine! These are really interesting. But there are other superb design insights there that at least myself didn't find people talking about. In the book, they say the classes are different aiming complexity and new players. So the Barbarian is the simplest and straightforward class to play, fighters and bards are middle ground and wizards and rogues are the most complex (if you set aside the druid...). But calling it differences in complexity is a huge understatement! I feel each class almost as if they were different games!! Barbarian is a class that almost doesn't gain anything new, making the player feel stable within a gameplay that involves rolling two dice most of the time. If he, the player, needs to roll only one die, something is probably wrong with her, the character, because she is not raging in a battle. And the critical hit happens both rolling 20 and hitting with both dice - it's an almost "number of successes" game. Meanwhile, the fighter is dedicated into probabilities through his die. The d20 roll for the fighter is far from just success/fail rate, because each roll can activate different abilities, thanks to the flexible attacks. Acquiring new maneuvers is not only about dealing more damage is a specialized attack, but a myriad of different effects that might happen. If someone is feeling his fighter is too random because of the flexible attacks, it's because this player is not accepting the non-binary structure of his fighter - she is from a different class and needs to be refined. The fighter in 13th Age is the all-out war soldier, which is trained enough to have lots of maneuvers, but is fighting unruly and dirty combats, in which finding spots to use those maneuvers is a mixture of thinking and chance. The rogue is not about number of successes, nor its a non-binary class. Rogue is about sequence. She needs to keep the momentum flowing, so she needs to guarantee that her strikes will follow her rythm. Hide in plain sight in the first round; hit in the flank in the second; hit in the frnt in the third... until you find the moment to strike, even if it means losing all that momentum she gathered. It's something like Fate characters, accumulating aspects until is the right moment; as if the inspiration in 5ed is the most important thing and you need to find a way to keep it, otherwise you lose it without spending its powers. [B]In this whole context[/B], the cleric is the class that uses multiple actions. The quick action (similar to the 5ed's bonus action) is the most important feature for the cleric, because most of his spells use it. So the cleric is an able warrior, hitting the enemy with one action and helping the other player with another. She also has domain powers that could be focused on giving rules exception. With these two features, the cleric gains the possibility to help and act each time it's her player's turn. If the class itself in the book in not doing it alright, it isn't a matter of the class design but the class list of options in the book, which is really easy to improve. You can write new games based in these classes: number of successes like Exalted; non-binary results like Genesys; accumulating the effects like Fate; multiple actions like Storyteller. And 13th Age has tiny pockets of these games in each of its classes. I usually like crunchier games, like Pathfinder. And what make me fell in love with 13th Age is far from its streamlined rules I always complement with crunchier alternatives, like feeling it with skill sets. And has nothing with Icon rules, which I limit the use during play because I suck at improvisation, and it took me years to get used to. XD So that's it. I think I just used a simple commentary to heavily praise 13th Age. And didn't even mention the escalation die... Yep, that's it. Paz! [/QUOTE]
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