Helping kobolds by hauling water up a 100' tall cliff, how would you do it?

[Arravis]

Ok, here is the situation: The game is set in a rocky, desert world much like Athas (Dark Sun), but scarce in magic or psionics. As in Athas, metal is extremely rare, and the technology level is around the early bronze age period (without the bronze ). There are a few rare woods that are nearly as strong as metal (one such tree is available to the players).

The group arrived at a neutrally aligned kobold community based at the bottom of a large canyon in the middle of the desert (one of the players is a kobold from this community). The canyon is a veritable paradise compared to the rest of the world. It is a ever green jungle with a river running through it. The water gushes out of a hole in the 100' tall walls at one end of the 35-mile long canyon and makes its way across the to the other end, where it dissapers back into the earth (underground river).

The peaceful kobolds want to expand their isolated community above the canyon, and they and the PCs are trying to figure out some way to build an irrigation system on the surface. Other than bucketing water up, and having it in some sort of cistern there, we haven't come across any other good ideas on how to get the water up the 100' canyon walls.

Lastly there is a 5th level wizard in the party, so if there is a 3rd level wizard spell (or lower) that might help, we may be able to use it. Anyway, any thoughts or ideas on this? Thanks guys!

 

[D'karr]

A well?

 

[Tarek]

Definitely a well.

That water is coming from somewhere, therefore there must be water under the plateau. You get up top on the plateau, dig down, and eventually you'll be able to find out where it's best to dig.

Also, you could climb up to the waterfall, cast water breathing or something like that, and try to get into the water system that way, to find out what's in there. Maybe there's an underground lake in a cavern system. From there you might even be able to (carefully) dig up to the plateau surface.

 

[greywulf]

Good question!

An Archimedes Screw (the historically preferred solution) is probably what you want

Using magic, lemme see.........

- use Charm Person/Suggestion to convince the leader of the Kobolds to expand into the sides of the cavern, not up
- Mage Hand the water, 5 pounds at a time (ouch!)
- Use Explosive Runes to blast a hole to make a well. Stand back!

 

[humble minion]

Hmmm. Any sort of of magic is going to be problematic considering a 5th level wizard has a hard time creating permanent effects. And with only one of the metal-substitute trees available, that's probably not enough to make an archimedes screw out of.

Bucketing water up suddenly becomes a viable alternative if you have (or can craft) a few Bags of Holding to use instead of buckets. But Tarek's suggestion of exploring the water source is much cooler!

 

[DMH]

Are we to assume that the kobolds do not have a favored class of sorcerer?

 

[WhatGravitas]

Hmmm. Any sort of of magic is going to be problematic considering a 5th level wizard has a hard time creating permanent effects. And with only one of the metal-substitute trees available, that's probably not enough to make an archimedes screw out of.

Bucketing water up suddenly becomes a viable alternative if you have (or can craft) a few Bags of Holding to use instead of buckets. But Tarek's suggestion of exploring the water source is much cooler!

Well, if the wizard has Craft Woundrous Item, he might persuade the DM to use it to create a permanent Floating Disk, that flies up and down, getting the 2 gallons each time, but that's hard, since the disk usually follows the caster (albeit 1 hour/level).

 

[HeavenShallBurn]

Move the Water: No magic required

Since you mention the canyon is a verdant watered jungle I shall exploit the natural site conditions.

1. Build a primitive windmill at the top of the canyon wall over where the water exits the cliff to exploit the wind (deserts are very windy places)
2. Carve or otherwise shape metal-substitute tree into a primitive pump made from an archimedes pump enclosed in a treetrunk. Link archimedes screw to windmill with leather drive belt.
3. Bore out series of treetrunks with ends that link. Could also cast clay pipe sections with the same basic form. Seal these pipe lengths to the crude pump and secure them to the cliff walls up to the desert floor and insert feed length into the watersource blocking part of flow.

The water pressure in the feed should be enough to push it up the closed pipe to the pump. An archimedes screw doesn't make a very good pump but if you enclose it and power it the device would be capable of creating pressure. Which would in turn force the water up the closed pipes some considerable distance. Except for the windmill roughly similar water systems were used in the ancient world.

 

[jefgorbach]

You dont say where in the 100' canyon wall the water emerges, but it must be somewhere near the top since it forms a waterfall to the river below before traveling 35-miles to the drain-hole back underground.

Sounds like a non-magical approach is needed since the PC's cant create permanent magical effects and wont want to stick around casting spells on the community's behalf indefinantely nor be able to teach the locals how cast it themselves, so how about:

1). Simplest way would be sticking a pipe into the hole to divert a portion of the flow the rest of the way to the top using the natural water pressure. Fill a cistern at the top then gravity-pipe it around as needed.

2) Alternately, build a paddle-wheel at the base of the waterfall to power a pulley system lifting the buckets to the top. (depending how the river drains back underground, this could also be done near the drain to power a second pulley-series there to raise water at both ends of the canyon).

 

[Andor]

Bucket chain driven by the river. Let the water lift itself.


So about 500' of rope or chain. 3 10' wheels. a bunch of buckets some planks and 2 axles.

An undershot waterwheel in the river drives the lower wheel. 2 parallel ropes run from the lower bucket up to the upper wheel. The buckets are attached to the rope. They dip into the river, are carried up, and dump their water into the flume at the top.

Not magic needed. The romans built more complicated devices every day of the week. Kobalds with their knack for mechanics should find it a doddle.

Note that it will be far more efficient if they can find a good point to build an overshot waterwheel.