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General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Helping melee combat to be more competitive to ranged.
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<blockquote data-quote="guachi" data-source="post: 6974839" data-attributes="member: 6785802"><p>To beat the Crossbow Expert horse once more:</p><p></p><p>I've never played 4e, so I don't know how the rules are worded but 5e, despite being written in "natural language", has some rules terminology they use repeatedly.</p><p></p><p>It wasn't exactly obvious on first reading but things referring to "actions" invariably refer to a specific rule identified action (Attack, bonus, cast a spell, etc) and not just the general usage of the word "action"</p><p></p><p>Similarly, there are specific definitions what "attack", "weapon", "ranged", "ranged weapon", "melee weapon", and "melee weapon attack" mean.</p><p></p><p>A few examples:</p><p>Attack - Attacks use attack rolls. No attack roll, not an attack. Magic missile - not an attack. Fireball - not an attack. Grapple - not an attack despite using the Attack action.</p><p>Ranged attack - The first part of Crossbow Expert refers to "ranged attack" which means, contrary to what many said, that it applies to ranged spell attack. It should also (IIRC, I'm not at my books) apply to melee weapons that you throw as it would now qualify as a ranged attack.</p><p>Melee Weapon Attack - An unarmed strike qualifies as a melee weapon attack despite not actually being a melee weapon (per errata)</p><p></p><p>in other words, it's best to read what the rules say, not what you think they say or think they should say or what you think the developers actually meant to say. Yes, it's possible you'll end up with results that seemingly make no sense like Dwarves being proficient in non-existent throwing hammers. But absent that, don't substitute your judgement for that of the developers. If they wrote it, they meant to write it that way.</p><p></p><p>So for Crossbow Expert - when they wrote "ranged attack" for the first feature assume they meant it (and they did. It's intentional). When they wrote "one-handed weapon" for the third feature, assume they meant it. To do otherwise you'd need to believe: 1) they meant to write "one-handed melee weapon" the first time but just made an error. 2) They meant to write "one-handed melee weapon" in the errata and just forgot 3) Jeremy Crawford failed to say and forgot yet again, when directly asked, that the RAI for the feature should only apply to "one-handed melee weapons" </p><p></p><p>It turns out, when Crawford did a Sage Advice answer about the Crossbow Expert feat 19 months ago, that his answer hinged on the same logic (and I think fairly clear logic) as my answer did. To whit:</p><p><em>A hand crossbow is a one-handed weapon, so it can, indeed, be used for both attacks, assuming you have a hand free to load the hand crossbow between the two attacks.</em></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="guachi, post: 6974839, member: 6785802"] To beat the Crossbow Expert horse once more: I've never played 4e, so I don't know how the rules are worded but 5e, despite being written in "natural language", has some rules terminology they use repeatedly. It wasn't exactly obvious on first reading but things referring to "actions" invariably refer to a specific rule identified action (Attack, bonus, cast a spell, etc) and not just the general usage of the word "action" Similarly, there are specific definitions what "attack", "weapon", "ranged", "ranged weapon", "melee weapon", and "melee weapon attack" mean. A few examples: Attack - Attacks use attack rolls. No attack roll, not an attack. Magic missile - not an attack. Fireball - not an attack. Grapple - not an attack despite using the Attack action. Ranged attack - The first part of Crossbow Expert refers to "ranged attack" which means, contrary to what many said, that it applies to ranged spell attack. It should also (IIRC, I'm not at my books) apply to melee weapons that you throw as it would now qualify as a ranged attack. Melee Weapon Attack - An unarmed strike qualifies as a melee weapon attack despite not actually being a melee weapon (per errata) in other words, it's best to read what the rules say, not what you think they say or think they should say or what you think the developers actually meant to say. Yes, it's possible you'll end up with results that seemingly make no sense like Dwarves being proficient in non-existent throwing hammers. But absent that, don't substitute your judgement for that of the developers. If they wrote it, they meant to write it that way. So for Crossbow Expert - when they wrote "ranged attack" for the first feature assume they meant it (and they did. It's intentional). When they wrote "one-handed weapon" for the third feature, assume they meant it. To do otherwise you'd need to believe: 1) they meant to write "one-handed melee weapon" the first time but just made an error. 2) They meant to write "one-handed melee weapon" in the errata and just forgot 3) Jeremy Crawford failed to say and forgot yet again, when directly asked, that the RAI for the feature should only apply to "one-handed melee weapons" It turns out, when Crawford did a Sage Advice answer about the Crossbow Expert feat 19 months ago, that his answer hinged on the same logic (and I think fairly clear logic) as my answer did. To whit: [I]A hand crossbow is a one-handed weapon, so it can, indeed, be used for both attacks, assuming you have a hand free to load the hand crossbow between the two attacks.[/I] [/QUOTE]
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