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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Celtavian" data-source="post: 6977200" data-attributes="member: 5834">They were with a horde. Explain their tactical capabilities. I want to hear using the Monster Manual entry their tactical capabilities. I want you to list them, then compare them to player tactical abilities. I want you to tell me what abilities they have listed in the Monster Manual that allows them to use other demons tactically. Do they have some special power for repositioning demons? Do they have spell abilities for buffing their demonic allies? What special abilities does a marilith have to represent their tactical capability as a demonic warlord leading other demons? If they tried to muscle up against a group of demons, they would get their ass kicked. Descriptive text unsupported by mechanical capability makes it so a creature cannot do its stated function. In fact, a group of demons using ranged attacks with flight could kill a marilith with ease. So why are they listening to it? Because the descriptive text said that had to? Some of us are not satisfied by descriptive text. If a marilit is listed as a demonic warlord leading demons, then we expect it to be able to do so using its power to intimidate the demons. The Marilith as written in the MM could be killed by a group of archers or ranged attacking demons or devils with relatively ease. Yet here you are claiming those us pointing this out are "whining", while I feel you are ignoring the mechanical reality of these creatures being unable to serve the function described in the descriptive text.There is little reason for a demonic horde to follow a marilith other than "the text says so." Demons are Chaotic Evil. In general, chaotic evil creatures do not follow a hierarchy. That means the strongest demons must be strong enough to keep them in line by force. A marilith cannot do this. It would be overwhelmed and killed. This was not the case in 3E. A marilith did have tactical options above and beyond what was common for demon kind. It was a boss demon. Same with a balor.You appear to satisfied with bags of hit points with melee ability and flavor text that tells you they're special. I prefer the mechanical capabilities of the creature match the flavor text meaning if a horde of demons shows up, they are afraid of the mariith because it could kill hundreds, if not thousands of them, alone. Power rules in The Abyss. You can call it whining all you want. I call it understanding the mechanics and learning how to make the mechanics match the descriptive text, so that creatures do what they're supposed to be able to do.BTW, I don't think it is utterly stupid to toss a single marilith at a party of powerful adventures. I think it is utterly stupid that a powerful marilith can't challenge a group of powerful adventurers as written. That's why I rewrote the marilith so the party would be more afraid of it, than it is afraid of them. I hate...UTTERLY HATE...the fact that PCs should scare monsters more than monsters scare PCs. Titans, dragons, powerful demons and devils, and the like should make PCs afraid to even engage in a fight against them both descriptively and mechanically. That's my opinion. I don't care if you don't agree with it.</blockquote>

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