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Message: <blockquote data-quote="smbakeresq" data-source="post: 6978793" data-attributes="member: 28301">What I see in this thread is characters being played as if they all went to tactical training school together even though they never met and the DM's having intelligent creatures in their lair not taking any defensive measures whatsoever. Recon is fine, but understand your invisible, stealth PC still interacts with the environment, and intelligent creatures will notice the footprints on the path or the disturbance in the air.  The DM's creatures also have seen invisibility before, in fact they might have invisible, stealthed guardians also.  I am old but I do remember the iron golems in the ethereal plane that phase in as soon as anything touches the floor or as soon as the command is given.  The simple addition of a floor covered in dust defeats most stealth checks.  The spell golddust did wonders but it is gone.  However, a similar effect would reveal an invisible stealthy PC, how about just a breeze constantly blowing coal ash, the ash wouldn't turn invisible when it stuck to you.In addition, the recon that has been described to me would take so long you would just trigger so many wandering monster checks or encounter a patrol, that would escalate and then just draw others.  Once the alarm is raised every creature would be actively searching for the PC's, active Perception checks or Investigation checks by multiple creatures, some of which will search by scent or other means will beat the PC's checks eventually. If the guard dog starts barking there is no reason why the handlers wouldn't figure out where you are or blind fire your location, if they cant see you they would just start spreading colored dust everywhere until it clings to you.</blockquote>

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