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Message: <blockquote data-quote="CapnZapp" data-source="post: 6983110" data-attributes="member: 12731">Ashkelon, I sincerely believe going into exact detail is not helping your case. It is simply far too easy to derail your core message by questioning individual statistics if you do. I would advise you to simply stick to the basics. It's much better to control the discussion. Example: If you're a fighter, and you get, say 12 levels to build a "slayer of monsters" (that is, a primarily damage-dealing fighter) what results do you get by picking - a sword and shield- a greatsword- a hand crossbowThe intent, of course, is to highlight two things:1) that the sword and shield guy falls hopelessly behind in games with feats, but not in games w/o feats2) that the ranged guy gets almost the same DPR as the greatsword gal (or even better!), yet has overwhelmingly superior range, can dump Strength, and all this for no drawbacks (other than the single extra feat) - again in games with feats only.This way the discussion can focus on this state of affairs. This very much indefensible state of affairs, I might add. This way, the is little for the apologists to distract you with.Obviously, the reason to argue this way is to get to the end goal quicker - the state of acceptance of our message, so the forum can move over to the truly interesting part, where we suggest interim solutions until WotC offers permanent errata.</blockquote>