Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Helping melee combat to be more competitive to ranged.
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="FormerlyHemlock" data-source="post: 6983144" data-attributes="member: 6787650"><p>Survivability and the ability to engage effectively matters more than DPR. That's the whole premise of the ranged superiority argument, nicht so? The game devs kept a tight rein on offensive abilities, and crossbow expert's bonus action doesn't really increase your effectiveness by very much. You want to use your bonus action in a game-changing way that lets you kill monsters you otherwise couldn't kill, and claim treasure you otherwise couldn't claim, and spend less resources than you would otherwise spend.</p><p></p><p>Increasing your attack rate DPR by 25-50% at the cost of your bonus action, a smaller damage die size (d6 instead of d8), a feat and having to be within 120' isn't a qualitative advantage. (At 1st-5th level when it increases it by 100%, Crossbow Expert is much more appealing, but not so at higher levels.)</p><p></p><p>Taking zero damage in a fight at the cost of a bonus action and either a spell (Expeditious Retreat) and open terrain, or a feat (Skulker) and two levels of Rogue is a qualitative advantage. Skulker + Rogue also increases your DPR by the way by giving you advantage on many of your attacks. Most monsters don't have blindsight or tremorsense, so you can hide from them behind obstacles or in the dark even if you're within darkvision range, because of Skulker. Skulker also ensures that you don't lose advantage unless you <em>hit</em> with your attack, which for someone like D'Artagnan the Swashbuckler (although he's not a Skulker until he levels up) means that his d8+4d6+15 (33) killer shot will almost always be made with advantage--it can't be blown on a miss.</p><p></p><p>Having a bunch of undead meat shields throwing nets to restrain your enemies and also tearing them apart and getting in their way at the cost of a bonus action and a spell or three (Animate Dead) is also a pretty good advantage.</p><p></p><p>Animate Object is similar to Animate Dead but less likely to be available to an archer, unless you think of a Sorlock as an archer. Also, Animate Dead has better action and concentration economies.</p><p></p><p>Hiding, mobility, and meat shields are the main good uses of bonus actions for archers. For other PCs, good bonus action uses can include wildshaping, teleportation, and maintaining damaging spells like Bigby's Hand.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="FormerlyHemlock, post: 6983144, member: 6787650"] Survivability and the ability to engage effectively matters more than DPR. That's the whole premise of the ranged superiority argument, nicht so? The game devs kept a tight rein on offensive abilities, and crossbow expert's bonus action doesn't really increase your effectiveness by very much. You want to use your bonus action in a game-changing way that lets you kill monsters you otherwise couldn't kill, and claim treasure you otherwise couldn't claim, and spend less resources than you would otherwise spend. Increasing your attack rate DPR by 25-50% at the cost of your bonus action, a smaller damage die size (d6 instead of d8), a feat and having to be within 120' isn't a qualitative advantage. (At 1st-5th level when it increases it by 100%, Crossbow Expert is much more appealing, but not so at higher levels.) Taking zero damage in a fight at the cost of a bonus action and either a spell (Expeditious Retreat) and open terrain, or a feat (Skulker) and two levels of Rogue is a qualitative advantage. Skulker + Rogue also increases your DPR by the way by giving you advantage on many of your attacks. Most monsters don't have blindsight or tremorsense, so you can hide from them behind obstacles or in the dark even if you're within darkvision range, because of Skulker. Skulker also ensures that you don't lose advantage unless you [I]hit[/I] with your attack, which for someone like D'Artagnan the Swashbuckler (although he's not a Skulker until he levels up) means that his d8+4d6+15 (33) killer shot will almost always be made with advantage--it can't be blown on a miss. Having a bunch of undead meat shields throwing nets to restrain your enemies and also tearing them apart and getting in their way at the cost of a bonus action and a spell or three (Animate Dead) is also a pretty good advantage. Animate Object is similar to Animate Dead but less likely to be available to an archer, unless you think of a Sorlock as an archer. Also, Animate Dead has better action and concentration economies. Hiding, mobility, and meat shields are the main good uses of bonus actions for archers. For other PCs, good bonus action uses can include wildshaping, teleportation, and maintaining damaging spells like Bigby's Hand. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Helping melee combat to be more competitive to ranged.
Top