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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ashkelon" data-source="post: 6985235" data-attributes="member: 6774887">I think some things are getting lost in the minutia here. So here are the facts:1) As far as pure damage goes, ranged builds are better than melee. This is because ranged damage is numerically higher, but also because an optimized ranged build suffers no real penalties for using a ranged weapon.2) The melee builds that are meaningfully relevant are melee controller builds. These builds utilize grapple/shoving enemies to prevent them from moving and to reduce the effectiveness of their attacks while also causing them to grant advantage.3) Bonus actions utilized for damage are generally inferior to bonus actions used for utility such as the rogue's Cunning Action, mobility from expeditions retreat or the monk's step of the wind, or bonus action spells. Those who purely favor martial warriors who do not multiclass rogue have no relevant use of their bonus action other than damage.So what does this mean to the game as a whole? Well it means that the best melee builds are not great weapon fighters. Instead they are single blade melee controllers who utilize grappling, magic, and a multiclass with either bard or rogue in order to lock down single enemy targets. It also means that they are better off learning spells than staying a pure martial class. It also means that if you want to deal damage above all else, you should focus on ranged combat with a hand crossbow instead of using a big two handed weapon. Finally, it also means that if you want to be the most effective martial character you can be, you should ignore typical fantasy conventions (such as the warrior who focuses on fighting with no magic or the knight who fights in heavy armor) and instead take subclasses or multiclass to give you relevant uses of your bonus action. A rogue fighter is typically better than a pure fighter. An eldritch knight is typically better than a champion fighter. An effective purely martial  fighter is only moderately powerful when compared to a spellcasting fighter or mutliclassed fighter.As such, classes focused on melee damage are typically a poor choice when compared to other available options. Especially those who do not wish to multiclass or cast spells.</blockquote>

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