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Helping melee combat to be more competitive to ranged.
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<blockquote data-quote="Corwin" data-source="post: 6987401" data-attributes="member: 1560"><p>...when the DM ensures it will be so by catering the game, and its scenarios, to the archer. Potentially correct. Though, even *then*, not necessarily at all levels of play.</p><p></p><p></p><p>You did it again. I bolded the part above that is, once more for the road, untrue. Do we really need to go over it the umpteenth time why you are incorrect in that assessment?</p><p></p><p></p><p>Even *if* that cheese was accepted at the table, without your fellow players pelting you with their dice, you are still wrong. You think your 1d4+5 is as threatening as 2d6+15 (reroll 1s and 2s, and with Sentinel shutting down their movement - yes, if your archer gets two feats, so does the other guy)? I can give you a hint as how to answer that: Nope. Point GWF.</p><p></p><p></p><p>So you are accusing me of ignoring the points made in this discussion prior, while you are ignoring all the points made in this discussion prior?</p><p> </p><p></p><p>More of the same? This is getting monotonous. You have done no such thing. You have only shown that, under ideal circumstances (under the control of the DM) a hand crossbow fighter can deal more damage than a GWF. This is neither news, nor a problem. Because there are also circumstances when there GWF will deal far, far more than 20% higher damage than that archer. It all balances out (unless your DM is consciously trying to screw over the GWF while trying to make the archer shine).</p><p></p><p></p><p>And requires a steady supply of ammo. And cannot threaten OAs. Points GWF.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Sometimes. Othertimes less.</p><p></p><p></p><p>What higher save(s) does the GWF have over the archer? You like to cherry-pick. It's not productive.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Which is cyclical. You aren't an assassin or a wizard with a fireball. Going first isn't the end-all-be-all you make it out to be. Lest you forget, I've been playing 5e for years now (as well? - I'm not sure about the extent of your experience playing 5e). I've seen hundreds of fights. An archer going first is nice. Sure it is. It's hardly ever game-changing. Oh, also, sometimes the archer doesn't even go first. Or even before the melee guys. Just thought I'd point that out in case you forgot.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Cool. So can the GWF. He can throw a javelin. Or, better yet, pull out a longbow himself, even. Thanks to BA, he doesn't have to have a 20 DEX to be competent with a bow. And he still gets his extra attacks. Oh, and that GWF has better short range with that bow than your hand crossbow guy's max range. So he's doing 100% more damage sometimes! I guess hand crossbow fighters suck because they can't do any damage at all at 150 feet away! Let alone potentially 600 feet away! Unlike the GWF. Points GWF.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Which to you, at least as it appears, means they failed at D&D for not caring solely about DPR? That says more about you than it does about 5e in general, AFAIC.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Corwin, post: 6987401, member: 1560"] ...when the DM ensures it will be so by catering the game, and its scenarios, to the archer. Potentially correct. Though, even *then*, not necessarily at all levels of play. You did it again. I bolded the part above that is, once more for the road, untrue. Do we really need to go over it the umpteenth time why you are incorrect in that assessment? Even *if* that cheese was accepted at the table, without your fellow players pelting you with their dice, you are still wrong. You think your 1d4+5 is as threatening as 2d6+15 (reroll 1s and 2s, and with Sentinel shutting down their movement - yes, if your archer gets two feats, so does the other guy)? I can give you a hint as how to answer that: Nope. Point GWF. So you are accusing me of ignoring the points made in this discussion prior, while you are ignoring all the points made in this discussion prior? More of the same? This is getting monotonous. You have done no such thing. You have only shown that, under ideal circumstances (under the control of the DM) a hand crossbow fighter can deal more damage than a GWF. This is neither news, nor a problem. Because there are also circumstances when there GWF will deal far, far more than 20% higher damage than that archer. It all balances out (unless your DM is consciously trying to screw over the GWF while trying to make the archer shine). And requires a steady supply of ammo. And cannot threaten OAs. Points GWF. Sometimes. Othertimes less. What higher save(s) does the GWF have over the archer? You like to cherry-pick. It's not productive. Which is cyclical. You aren't an assassin or a wizard with a fireball. Going first isn't the end-all-be-all you make it out to be. Lest you forget, I've been playing 5e for years now (as well? - I'm not sure about the extent of your experience playing 5e). I've seen hundreds of fights. An archer going first is nice. Sure it is. It's hardly ever game-changing. Oh, also, sometimes the archer doesn't even go first. Or even before the melee guys. Just thought I'd point that out in case you forgot. Cool. So can the GWF. He can throw a javelin. Or, better yet, pull out a longbow himself, even. Thanks to BA, he doesn't have to have a 20 DEX to be competent with a bow. And he still gets his extra attacks. Oh, and that GWF has better short range with that bow than your hand crossbow guy's max range. So he's doing 100% more damage sometimes! I guess hand crossbow fighters suck because they can't do any damage at all at 150 feet away! Let alone potentially 600 feet away! Unlike the GWF. Points GWF. Which to you, at least as it appears, means they failed at D&D for not caring solely about DPR? That says more about you than it does about 5e in general, AFAIC. [/QUOTE]
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