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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ovinomancer" data-source="post: 6988979" data-attributes="member: 16814">Yes, but not in 5e.  However, my melees in 5e have been clerics and monks up till now.  At one point I had a knowledge cleric (not a tank), a light monk (focused on movement), a warlock (EB focus),  a ranger (ranged focus), and a lightfoot rogue (ranged focus).  There was no front line, per se.  Right now, that party composition is a battlemaster sheild expert fighter, a tempest cleric, the ranger and the rogue.  Huh... the only character that hasn't died in my campaign is the ranger (they're all 11th now).  The rogue player had a cleric until the TPK (except the ranger) at 5th level.  Both the battlemaster and the tempest cleric have played exclusively melee or caster builds (a barbarian, a monk, and a melee wizard/fighter for one, and a bard, a cleric, and an arcane trickster dagger fighter for the other).  Those two players are, arguably, the better tactical players at the table, too.  Weird. (The warlock player got disinvited, although I've recently added a wizard player, he's only made on sessions so far).So, for most of my ranged players' careers in 5e, they've had weak front lines.  Tactically, I can say this doesn't seem to matter much, up until the point I can actually split them up and get them focused on individual threats rather than focus fire.  So long as they continue focus fire, they've done very well.  The combats that go badly, though, almost always involve them operating as individuals against independent threats.  At that point I can overwhelm them because I've broken their mutual support.  Not that this is my goal, as a DM, I never set out to do this, but I also play encounters according to the desires and objectives of the bad guys, and some of them are smart enough and powerful enough to operate this way.  In reality, the rogue in my group has approx 70 hp at 11th (8 first +4*10 levels +2*11 con, oh hey, that is 70).  Add roll with it to that and he's pretty tough.  Sure, much less than the 18 con and tough tempest cleric with the 21 AC, but the cleric also has a 12 STR, so he's not much of a melee threat to stop critters.  The ranger is better off than the rogue, but lacks roll with it, but suppliments with escape the horde and a 17 AC, meaning that she just walks away from most melee combatants and often doesn't get hit (disad against 17 AC likely misses for most monster to hits). Right now, actual control is done by the battlemaster, who shield bashes and goads all the time, and by the tempest cleric's spells. So, I just haven't actually noticed a need for a meat wall in 5e. A touch of control and the beefiness of characters limits the need.</blockquote>

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