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Message: <blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 6992106" data-attributes="member: 42582">Do you mean better for the attacker, or for the defender? Or do you mean on an open plain that two sides are contesting? What scenario do you have in mind?I mean, here's a scenario where ranged has the advantage over melee: three stone giants with rocks a standing at the top of a mountain pass while 3 1st level PCs try to ascend it. But what does the possibility of that scenario tell us about the mechanical balance of the game?As I understand it, those sorts of mechanical differences, which change the balance between ranged and melee strategies, are precisely the subject matter of this thread.As I said, I wasn't there. Maybe they had to move and dash. Maybe they had to climb down through the hole in the ceiling, and so couldn't attack until regaining their footing (in round 2). I don't think that this is the biggest issue - make them orcs rather than gnolls, and a single instance of damage from a 4th level Spirit Guardians will be sufficient to take many of them down (I make it 15.3 average damage with DC 15 and +0 to save). The issue that  [MENTION=12731]CapnZapp[/MENTION] is concerned about is the ability of auto-damage to eliminate mooks. This is not a new issue. It was widely noted and discussed in the 4e era. One legitimate solution - not uncommon in that era - is to raise the hp of mooks (eg many people used 2-hit minions).EDIT: I'm having trouble with your strangely aggressive tone. You chimed in to tell  [MENTION=12731]CapnZapp[/MENTION] what a bad GM he was for running his gnoll scenario. It turned out that the gnoll scenario wasn't quite as you apparently had envisaged it (eg it involved a cleric defending a choke point using Spirit Guardians as a mobile damaging aura). And in any event there is nothing inherently bad about running a scenario in which slavering hoards attempt to tear their enemies apart with their bare hands - it hardly breaks genre, either in general or for gnolls (I think I found another Volo's picture in which gnolls have no bows - p 38).I don't share your concern with the minutiae of the example - I don't think that's its real point. Nor do I share your concern to come up with scenarios in which ranged attacks can dominate. This thread is about the general or typical case. The basic import of the thread seems perfectly clear to me. (And the concern is not with thrown spears, which - under [MENTION=12731]CapnZapp[/MENTION]'s proposed rules changes don't change at all, still getting STR bonus to hit and damage; and which suffer from a reduced rate of attack relative to archery, due to the object handling rules. CapnZapp can correct me if I've got that wrong, but it seems fairly clear to me.)</blockquote>

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