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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Upper_Krust" data-source="post: 92139" data-attributes="member: 326">Re: Upper Krust...Morning all! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> Nothing I can't handle I'm sure! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /> Thank you. I fail to see what the 'Summon Monster' analogy has to do with this!? Avatars have always been permanent beings in D&D and I see no logical reason why this is set to change!? We know that WotC regard it as effective as one Salient Divine Ability. True. But then unless they impose some time limit on Avatar existence this example doesn't help us.If you notice from Glyfairs post when describing Hera's Avatar WotC write: "As Hera except..." They then proceed to list the differences.If you are implying that any character is more than just the sum of their parts then I agree. But that in no way displaces any part of my argument.Although somewhere along the line I have lost what we were arguing about!?We know certain facts, to which I have added some speculation and subsequently an opinion based on that speculation.Are you arguing that I may be incorrect!? I agree.Are you arguing I don't have the right to speculate about upcoming products!? If so, you are missing the point of the General Discussion board.I wasn't describing any speculation I was refering to the FACTS we have already unearthed. I suggest you read them...weeping is optional. - Automatic Actions (DC 10 + Divine Rank) - Innate Spell Levels (Level 10 + Divine Rank) - Domain Powers (Uses per day = Divine Rank) - Divine Aura (DC = Divine Rank + 10 + Cha bonus) - Salient Divine Abilities (Divine Rank +1, gaining one for Divine Rank +0)- Divine bonus to AC - Spell Resistance (32 +Divine Rank) - Damage Reduction (35 + Divine Rank) I don't remember saying that. What I did say was that it looks as though the Avatar ability represents one Salient Divine Ability choice; of which Hermes has at least 16 (Divine Rank +1).Presumably they wouldn't allow you to chose 'Avatar' at Divine Rank 0 or 1. Thank you. I have been consistent, you just haven't been paying attention mate! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Thank you.The 'qualititive nature of Salient Abilities' will have little effect on either my 'mechanical' or 'philosophical' argument.Divine Rank may represent the equivalent of +1 (Epic) Level, or +2, or +3, or +4 etc. But it definately represents a '+'.What I have said when delivering speculation is that 'based on the evidence at our disposal if they are handling things like this then heres my opinion'...</blockquote>

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