Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Here, Let Me Fix "Powers Per Day" For You
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 5970277" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>As I posted upthread, not everyone who finds that certain mechanics lead to an undesirable 15 minute day is in need of player education.</p><p></p><p>I, personally, have zero interest in playing a game in which wandering monsters figure prominently. They're a distraction from the real point of play.</p><p></p><p>Why not? Or to turn this from question to assertion: there are multiple ways to handle ingame causation and the passage of time, and "the world not stopping just because the PCs do" is just one of them.</p><p></p><p>Suppose that I want a "Balrog on the bridge of Moria" moment in my game. One way is to wait for the dice to line up so that the appearance of the Balrog, the readiness of the goblins etc all correlates perfectly with the time that the PCs happen to be crossing the bridge, despite all their prior resting, arguing etc. Another way is to stage the scene when they get to the bridge. I personally tend to prefer the latter approach.</p><p></p><p>Ron Edwards has <a href="http://www.indie-rpgs.com/articles/15/" target="_blank">some</a> <a href="http://www.indie-rpgs.com/articles/3/" target="_blank">things</a> to say about how to handle the passage of time and scene framing:</p><p></p><p style="margin-left: 20px">I'll discuss two elements of Resolution which are rarely recognized: the treatment of in-game time and space. These are a big deal in Simulationist play as universal and consistent constraints, which must apply equally to any part of the imagined universe, at any point during play. </p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">To talk about this, let's break the issue down a little: </p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p><p style="margin-left: 20px">*In-game time occurs regarding the actually-played imaginary moments and events. It's best expressed by combat mechanics, which in Simulationist play are often extremely well-defined in terms of seconds and actions, but also by movement rates at various scales, starship travel times, and similar things. </p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">*Metagame time is rarely discussed openly, but it's the crucial one. It refers to time-lapse among really-played scenes: can someone get to the castle before someone else kills the king; can someone fly across Detroit before someone else detonates the Mind Bomb. Metagame time isn't "played," but its management is a central issue for scene-framing and the outcome of the session as a whole. . .</p></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">Gygax's text [the AD&D DMG] perfectly states the Simulationist view of in-game time. It is a <em>causal constraint</em> on the other sorts. . . <em>It works in-to-out</em>. In-game time at the fine-grained level (rounds, seconds, actions, movement rates) sets incontrovertible, foundation material for making judgments about hours, days, cross-town movment, and who gets where in what order. I recommend anyone who's interested to the text of DC Heroes for some of the most explicit text available on this issue throughout the book. </p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">. . .</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">Concrete example[ of] Simulationism over-riding Narrativism . . . </p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p><p style="margin-left: 20px">*The time to traverse town with super-running is deemed insufficient to arrive at the scene, with reference to distance and actions at the scene, such that the villain's bomb does blow up the city. (The rules for DC Heroes specifically dictate that this be the appropriate way to GM such a scene).</p> </p><p></p><p>I'm personally not interested in the DC Heroes approach. I'm happy for the princess to die, or the building to be blown up, but it's not going to happen offscreen, as a result of (what Edwards is calling) metagame time. It will happen onscreen, as an element of and immediate consequence of actual play.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 5970277, member: 42582"] As I posted upthread, not everyone who finds that certain mechanics lead to an undesirable 15 minute day is in need of player education. I, personally, have zero interest in playing a game in which wandering monsters figure prominently. They're a distraction from the real point of play. Why not? Or to turn this from question to assertion: there are multiple ways to handle ingame causation and the passage of time, and "the world not stopping just because the PCs do" is just one of them. Suppose that I want a "Balrog on the bridge of Moria" moment in my game. One way is to wait for the dice to line up so that the appearance of the Balrog, the readiness of the goblins etc all correlates perfectly with the time that the PCs happen to be crossing the bridge, despite all their prior resting, arguing etc. Another way is to stage the scene when they get to the bridge. I personally tend to prefer the latter approach. Ron Edwards has [url=http://www.indie-rpgs.com/articles/15/]some[/url] [url=http://www.indie-rpgs.com/articles/3/]things[/url] to say about how to handle the passage of time and scene framing: [indent]I'll discuss two elements of Resolution which are rarely recognized: the treatment of in-game time and space. These are a big deal in Simulationist play as universal and consistent constraints, which must apply equally to any part of the imagined universe, at any point during play. To talk about this, let's break the issue down a little: [indent]*In-game time occurs regarding the actually-played imaginary moments and events. It's best expressed by combat mechanics, which in Simulationist play are often extremely well-defined in terms of seconds and actions, but also by movement rates at various scales, starship travel times, and similar things. *Metagame time is rarely discussed openly, but it's the crucial one. It refers to time-lapse among really-played scenes: can someone get to the castle before someone else kills the king; can someone fly across Detroit before someone else detonates the Mind Bomb. Metagame time isn't "played," but its management is a central issue for scene-framing and the outcome of the session as a whole. . .[/indent] Gygax's text [the AD&D DMG] perfectly states the Simulationist view of in-game time. It is a [I]causal constraint[/I] on the other sorts. . . [I]It works in-to-out[/I]. In-game time at the fine-grained level (rounds, seconds, actions, movement rates) sets incontrovertible, foundation material for making judgments about hours, days, cross-town movment, and who gets where in what order. I recommend anyone who's interested to the text of DC Heroes for some of the most explicit text available on this issue throughout the book. . . . Concrete example[ of] Simulationism over-riding Narrativism . . . [indent]*The time to traverse town with super-running is deemed insufficient to arrive at the scene, with reference to distance and actions at the scene, such that the villain's bomb does blow up the city. (The rules for DC Heroes specifically dictate that this be the appropriate way to GM such a scene).[/indent][/indent] I'm personally not interested in the DC Heroes approach. I'm happy for the princess to die, or the building to be blown up, but it's not going to happen offscreen, as a result of (what Edwards is calling) metagame time. It will happen onscreen, as an element of and immediate consequence of actual play. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Here, Let Me Fix "Powers Per Day" For You
Top