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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Redbadge" data-source="post: 7784858" data-attributes="member: 61463">What about PF2's Brutish Shove, which is a 1st-level At-Will power for the PF2 fighter that deals 1[W] damage plus pushes the target back 5 feet (and unlike the Playtest version, doesn't give the target a choice)? There seems to be numerous positioning powers throughout the ability lists of both martials and casters, and fighters in particular have these types of options at nearly every level.As someone that was fortunate enough to get my book early from my subscription, I can confirm that PF2 doesn't resemble 4e much other than the keywording and power structure, similarities in the way conditions are handled (including their proliferation throughout the powers of every class), level and rarity tags for every magic item, proliferation of magic item daily and encounter powers, the inclusion of a general structure of "at-will", "encounter", and "daily" recharge combat options (although generally, but not always, excluded from the fighter and rogue, like 4e essentials), skill powers selected using a different pool and at different levels than combat abilities (many of which are similar if not identical to 4e utility and skill powers), a general assumption of the variety of arrays for point buys (always with a 16 or 18 in the prime stat), using the prime stat for attacks, even spells, in keeping with those expected arrays, skill challenges, the moving of certain utility spells to ritual status, the scaling of the entire character framework (skills, attacks, defenses, initiative) based on level using a unified progression (+1 per level rather than 4e's +.5 per level), the expansion of monsters to include a number of specified, keyworded actions and power to use the new streamlined action economy, even for the simplest of monsters, the proliferation of triggered powers and abilities as part of this new action economy, skill challenges, a scaling DC table based on character level to help to DM adjudicate improvised actions, the inclusion of a number of ancestry/race feats to allow improvement to that aspect of your character, the use of feats (with ability prerequisites) to multiclass (and granting a trained skill and iconic ability from the class) and further feat selections to pick up powers from that class, a growing collection of powers that you select from as you level up (many of which are very similar if not identical to one or more of 4e's 2500 powers, certain item slots that are always intended to be part of the baseline (potency runes for armor in weapons in PF2; weapon, armor, neck in 4e), the way those potency runes work with regards to leveling, scaling, and expected power level, crafting that allows you to generate any common item from your magic item wishlist in support of you character build (but like 4e, with no economic advantage over buying the item from a shop), the hazard and trap statblocks, the expansion of the use of difficult terrain and combat set pieces (often to be used with the improvised DC table, colloqially called "page 42" table from 4e, and like 4e uses "minor", "moderate", or "heavy" damage based on the character's level, rather than a fixed value), no opposed rolls (instead often attacking fixed Reflex or Athletics DCs, for example), animal companions, summons, and other creatures simplified to "minion" status, greater differentiation of weapons and armors based upon keywords, metagame points (hero/action) available only to the PCs to make them feel more heroic, vast reduction in save or die, the general balance of the classes, the more defined roles (paladins are the only class with legendary armor, also have a reaction to punish creatures that attack allies; alchemists have three subclasses, each focused on a different role such as the chirugeon's healing or the bomber's damage/AOE), multiple simultaneous ability boosts at each tier (obviously baked into the math), the use of different defined power sources for magic (including arcane, divine, primal, and occult), the heavy reliance on grid play, the proliferation of the most common combat effect - flat-footed, which is identical in effect, utility, and type and context of occurrence to 4e's "combat advantage," removal of certain actions and effects (such as sunder) without having the appropriate power, the inclusion and keywording of basic attacks (strikes) to help better define their interaction within powers and the action economy, simplified attacks of opportunity (which, like 4e, have been made into an iconic fighter ability), the way specific rules elements work (i.e. resistances and weaknesses work identically and are formatted similarly to 4e, although the actual number of similar mechanics at this level of fidelity are far to numerous to list here, such as the way wands have been changed to be permanent implements with a daily power), between combat non-magical healing (and the proliferation of non-magical healing options in general), AND the general layout, formatting, presentation, and verbiage of the books themselves (although PF2 is far better at marrying the flavor to the mechanics, a definite change for the better).Other than that (and numerous other stuff I didn't list before tiring of this exercise), I don't see how anyone could possibly think the two were similar.</blockquote>

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