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Here's What A 5' Square Actually Looks Like
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<blockquote data-quote="GreyLord" data-source="post: 7809789" data-attributes="member: 4348"><p>The Swords I showed you are NOT CALLED ARMING SWORDS.</p><p></p><p>Why do you insist on calling them something they are not?</p><p></p><p>You are going off with D&Disms. (well, maybe not D&Disms, but RPGisms on could say, or modern applications of an item rather than the traditional historical references).</p><p></p><p>We see it permeate a LOT of historical ideas these days, but when sites start classifying something as a Bastard Sword, you know it has generally been influenced by D&D isms.</p><p></p><p>Most of the "longswords" that you are talking about were created during the Renaissance (but ironically, an instant giveaway of a site that is trying to change the label of swords will say they were around in the Middle Ages).</p><p></p><p>Most of the definitions these days that use words such as Bastard Sword, Long Sword or Great Sword are pure D&Disms that have crept in to people's vernacular, but had no real bearing on what they were traditionally considered or called. </p><p></p><p>Generally in the Middle Ages and times prior to the Renaissance a sword was called...a sword. There was no...Long Sword, Arming Sword, or much less other things people have come up with in modern times. </p><p></p><p>Particular swords had specific type of classifications at times, specific to that type of sword, but they normally did not have the branching that many here indicate. </p><p></p><p>Longswords in SOME German and other texts referred to a longer blade or grip but OTHERS that would refer to a long sword or long blade were just talking about a sword or blade that was longer (and sometimes even, an innuendo in reference to other things involved in the pun). Generally, a longsword just meant a SWORD that was longer. It didn't necessarily mean that it had to have a grip with two hands (though you are free to try to reinterpret many historical texts if you desire, though it wouldn't make a LOT Of sense in many instances).</p><p></p><p>I hear that many modern fencers use the definition you are stating, but historically, it's bunk that a longsword required a longer grip. It simply meant....a longer sword.</p><p></p><p>Swords with two grips that were referred to by Germans and others are unclear at what they were specifically referring to at times, but some of those references are actually to what YOU are calling a Great Sword.</p><p></p><p>It sounds like we are referring to two separate things. One where I've seen D&Disms creep in, which is what you seem to be using and is with some of the modern fencing definitions (where yes, a longsword has a grip for two hands, but has no basis in historical reference...except D&Disms which have crept into it)...and the other which deal with the more historical definitions which I seem to be using.</p><p></p><p>However, the modern fencing definitions are not what the historical definitions are. This is where I think the disagreement comes out, as what we learned in history decades ago, prior to the D&Disms creeping into other sports and such, do NOT coincide with what those types of fencers define swords as today. Thus the historical definitions of these things which I am using do not conjoin with what you are using.</p><p></p><p>King Richard would have probably been MUCH displeased if you had referred to his sword as a short sword or arming sword I imagine (yes, as with Shakespeare...that can be seen as a slight pun).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="GreyLord, post: 7809789, member: 4348"] The Swords I showed you are NOT CALLED ARMING SWORDS. Why do you insist on calling them something they are not? You are going off with D&Disms. (well, maybe not D&Disms, but RPGisms on could say, or modern applications of an item rather than the traditional historical references). We see it permeate a LOT of historical ideas these days, but when sites start classifying something as a Bastard Sword, you know it has generally been influenced by D&D isms. Most of the "longswords" that you are talking about were created during the Renaissance (but ironically, an instant giveaway of a site that is trying to change the label of swords will say they were around in the Middle Ages). Most of the definitions these days that use words such as Bastard Sword, Long Sword or Great Sword are pure D&Disms that have crept in to people's vernacular, but had no real bearing on what they were traditionally considered or called. Generally in the Middle Ages and times prior to the Renaissance a sword was called...a sword. There was no...Long Sword, Arming Sword, or much less other things people have come up with in modern times. Particular swords had specific type of classifications at times, specific to that type of sword, but they normally did not have the branching that many here indicate. Longswords in SOME German and other texts referred to a longer blade or grip but OTHERS that would refer to a long sword or long blade were just talking about a sword or blade that was longer (and sometimes even, an innuendo in reference to other things involved in the pun). Generally, a longsword just meant a SWORD that was longer. It didn't necessarily mean that it had to have a grip with two hands (though you are free to try to reinterpret many historical texts if you desire, though it wouldn't make a LOT Of sense in many instances). I hear that many modern fencers use the definition you are stating, but historically, it's bunk that a longsword required a longer grip. It simply meant....a longer sword. Swords with two grips that were referred to by Germans and others are unclear at what they were specifically referring to at times, but some of those references are actually to what YOU are calling a Great Sword. It sounds like we are referring to two separate things. One where I've seen D&Disms creep in, which is what you seem to be using and is with some of the modern fencing definitions (where yes, a longsword has a grip for two hands, but has no basis in historical reference...except D&Disms which have crept into it)...and the other which deal with the more historical definitions which I seem to be using. However, the modern fencing definitions are not what the historical definitions are. This is where I think the disagreement comes out, as what we learned in history decades ago, prior to the D&Disms creeping into other sports and such, do NOT coincide with what those types of fencers define swords as today. Thus the historical definitions of these things which I am using do not conjoin with what you are using. King Richard would have probably been MUCH displeased if you had referred to his sword as a short sword or arming sword I imagine (yes, as with Shakespeare...that can be seen as a slight pun). [/QUOTE]
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