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<blockquote data-quote="Ovinomancer" data-source="post: 7969159" data-attributes="member: 16814">I still don't see the distinction.&nbsp; Your examples of psionics vs magic are selective.&nbsp; Prof X often uses somatic gestures when doing anything more than light telepathy (he touches his temple) and definitely needs a complex material component for his most powerful works (Cerebro).&nbsp; Jedi Knights often had somatic components to their efforts.&nbsp; Only Masters didn't always use them, and they still often did.&nbsp; Eleven uses some, sometimes.&nbsp; Spock always did -- it wasn't just contact, it was specific contact in a specific way, often with a ritual mantra.&nbsp; Cthulhu is an Old God -- he's probably using all kinda of VSM, we just can't comprehend it.On the magic side, Dr Strange does lots of magic without VSM, and lots with.&nbsp; Seems arbitrary.&nbsp; Your panel has him locked down with a spell, no items, and bound, and the binding only prevents him from casting spells with his hands, as it notes.&nbsp; He does plenty without hands.&nbsp; The Potter-verse has magic without VSM as well, although it usually involves S.&nbsp; Gandalf does magic without VSM as well. It appears that, fictionally, sources are all over the place as to what requires what when.&nbsp; I don't get why psionics in D&amp;D MUST NOT HAVE VSM.&nbsp; It seems an oddly narrow way to constrain what counts as true psionics in D&amp;D.&nbsp; As many have noted, it really seems a flavor thing rather than anything actually important to the use, as there's a whole discussion on how to adjust psionics with noticeable cues other than VSM so as to not cause unintended rules interactions due to the removal of VSM.&nbsp; That's looking to fix a problem caused by removal of VSM by adding equivalents to VSM that just aren't VSM.&nbsp; That's... weird.&nbsp; Why not change the VSM to be psionically themed things -- crystals, mantras, gestures -- rather than have to fix things because you removed VSM?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Ovinomancer, post: 7969159, member: 16814"] I still don't see the distinction. Your examples of psionics vs magic are selective. Prof X often uses somatic gestures when doing anything more than light telepathy (he touches his temple) and definitely needs a complex material component for his most powerful works (Cerebro). Jedi Knights often had somatic components to their efforts. Only Masters didn't always use them, and they still often did. Eleven uses some, sometimes. Spock always did -- it wasn't just contact, it was specific contact in a specific way, often with a ritual mantra. Cthulhu is an Old God -- he's probably using all kinda of VSM, we just can't comprehend it. On the magic side, Dr Strange does lots of magic without VSM, and lots with. Seems arbitrary. Your panel has him locked down with a spell, no items, and bound, and the binding only prevents him from casting spells with his hands, as it notes. He does plenty without hands. The Potter-verse has magic without VSM as well, although it usually involves S. Gandalf does magic without VSM as well. It appears that, fictionally, sources are all over the place as to what requires what when. I don't get why psionics in D&D MUST NOT HAVE VSM. It seems an oddly narrow way to constrain what counts as true psionics in D&D. As many have noted, it really seems a flavor thing rather than anything actually important to the use, as there's a whole discussion on how to adjust psionics with noticeable cues other than VSM so as to not cause unintended rules interactions due to the removal of VSM. That's looking to fix a problem caused by removal of VSM by adding equivalents to VSM that just aren't VSM. That's... weird. Why not change the VSM to be psionically themed things -- crystals, mantras, gestures -- rather than have to fix things because you removed VSM? [/QUOTE]

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