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Message: <blockquote data-quote="ValhallaGH" data-source="post: 5086607" data-attributes="member: 41187">Okay.  I'm curious, where you trying to get everything to be equal to your PL or at your PL caps?  It doesn't matter, but I am curious.And for the record, the cheapest way to do what you described is to use the Enhanced Ability power (with the Permanent flaw).  For 30 power points you can get a 30 Dex, 30 Con, and 30 Wis; this gives you +10 in all four of your saving throws.  Spend another 40 points to get your attack and defense to +10, and you have 80 points for feats, skills, and powers, while having most of your combat stuff at PL 10.Most powers don't need to be near your PL.Flight, for example, should almost never be near your PL for a PL 10 hero.Absolutely true, and I couldn't agree with you more.Two points.  First, M&M is not a level-based game.  Advancement is by power points, with hard limits set by the GM (yes, the limits are known as power levels; that ain't the same as character levels in D&D).  [sblock=Explanation of Power Level]PL is used to set the tone and general character power of the campaign.PL 0 - average person on the street. Some professional training (a skill or two at rank 1 to 5), but no combat ability and average overall ability scores. Your basic Innocent Bystander.PL 3 - World renowned experts.  Most Nobel prize winners end up here due to high skill ranks (up to rank 8) and high intelligence scores (~16, but up to 26).PL 4 - "Hollywood Cops", or cinematic police officers that you tend to see in action movies and in action-heavy police dramas.PL 5 - average professional infantry soldier. Well trained and equipped, with a broad group of skills focused on combat, survival, and movement.PL 6 to 8 - most military special forces. U.S. Navy SEALs, Green Berets, CSOR, SAS, Mossad and other elite units would fall into this range. With the right equipment and a good plan, they can take down almost any target, though they're still very human (and extremely vulnerable if caught by surprise).Also, most Luthor-like villains (brilliant, evil billionaires) would fit into this range due to their skill ranks (and possibly personalized martial arts training).PL 7 to 9 - Most starting super heroes. Enough power to shake a city, but without the experience and skill to really change it. However, the potential is all there.PL 10 - Veteran super heroes that have a couple years of experience and have a city of their own that they protect.  If you mess with that city, you'll have to deal with this hero.  By this point they should have a nemesis, a fan base (even if a small one), or a growing urban legend "known" to be true by the residents of their favored neighborhoods. Some rookies start here, but they tend to be incredibly powerful, able to melt tanks (and buildings, let alone bank robbers) with no effort and possibly by accident.Low-rank gods are generally at this level.  Fairly minor deities, like Pan, are in this range.  Extremely powerful, but limited.PL 12 - this is probably the level I'd cap the veterans of the Avengers at. Most heroes won't go past this PL and very few of them ever should. At this point, a single character should be a viable threat to an entire country, assuming that his power set allows him to be threatening.Normals shouldn't go past this point, as training and experience can only do so much.Moderate-power gods will largely be here.  They have abilities that no normal mortal can resist but that powerful and lucky individuals can withstand (at least temporarily).Powerful demi-gods, such as Heracles, would stop right about here.PL 15 - The gods of superdom, this level is generally reserved for those few individuals (hero or villain) that change the world just by existing. At this point, a hero can be so talented that their ability is measured on a universe scale. Superman, Shazam, Thanos, occasionally Thor, and others of a power that rivals gods.Major gods like the Greek deity Hades fit right here.PL 16+ - that handful of characters that alter all of reality. A creature that can personally kill an entire city in an hour or so (by individually gutting the citizens with it's hands), before sweeping across the rest of the planet. An inter-stellar conqueror, leader of a warband composed of half a galaxy, and personal champion of his own nigh-endless hordes. The interdimensional ruler-invader that could decide to unmake the universe the heroes are in, if they annoy him enough. That kind of guy.[/sblock]Second, you're free to have whatever tastes you want, and I certainly won't berate you for them.  No one around here should, either.  What I will do is point out where your tastes are based upon false impressions or bad information; as long as you're well informed, what you choose to like doesn't much matter to me.  It's your life, enjoy it.Heh.  Maybe you should stay away from super-hero games, then.  Every one I've come across has been complicated.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" />Well, now I'm stating it.  It's one of the (many) advancement options presented in the Mastermind's Manual.  The idea is to provide minimum base-line abilities that all heroes have to have.  It requires +1 attack / defense at each PL (4pp per PL), 2 + 1/2 PL to one save (2pp at PL 1, plus 0.5pp per PL), 1/3 PL to two saves (0.66pp per PL), and 9 power points to spend freely on feats, powers, ability scores, and further saving throw or combat bonuses at most PLs. I really dislike how it makes the game feel like a level-based one, but that's just my tastes.Possibly, but not irrelevant.  I've seen some stupid character creations before, where family, name, and basic appearance were bought with character points.  And often didn't matter at all for the game mechanics.</blockquote>

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