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<blockquote data-quote="Reynard" data-source="post: 1319457" data-attributes="member: 467">In a game where ressurection is possible, there are far worse fates than death, particularly for characters high enough level to have access to or afford such spells.&nbsp; Strongholds, titles, reputations, and loved ones can all be targets and can have great impact, particularly when the PC must choose between one of these and achieving the greater good -- heroism is all about choices, I think.Part of the problem is when characters don't have anything worth risking, whether the fault of the players (&quot;I don't have any friends/relatives/lovers because I don't want them to get targetted.&quot;) or of the DM (who rewards PCs with little more that gold and magic items).Creating circumstances under which true heroic action is possible is the responsibility of both the players and the DM.&nbsp; The dcie cannot rule everything, and the characters need to be more than the sum of what is written on their character sheets.&nbsp; DMs must offer not only the kind of quests and goals that make one a hero, but must create the situations in which true heroism is separated from mere victory.&nbsp; Finding and destroying the Orb of Ultimate Badness is not heroic unless the PCs are threatened with some sort of *personal* consequence for failing to do so.&nbsp; If players don't care about their characters' not statistical aspects, true heroism isn't likely to occur.Of course, playing that way is not bad or wrong, it is just different.&nbsp; But everyone has to be on the same page.&nbsp; You can't have a DM who visualizes great, epic, tragic heroism and players that just want to engage in tactical brawls.&nbsp; On the flipside, you can't have players (or worse yet, one of a number of players) who want to explore what it means to be a hero and have a DM who wants to see how many beholders it takes to TPK the party.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Reynard, post: 1319457, member: 467"] In a game where ressurection is possible, there are far worse fates than death, particularly for characters high enough level to have access to or afford such spells. Strongholds, titles, reputations, and loved ones can all be targets and can have great impact, particularly when the PC must choose between one of these and achieving the greater good -- heroism is all about choices, I think. Part of the problem is when characters don't have anything worth risking, whether the fault of the players ("I don't have any friends/relatives/lovers because I don't want them to get targetted.") or of the DM (who rewards PCs with little more that gold and magic items). Creating circumstances under which true heroic action is possible is the responsibility of both the players and the DM. The dcie cannot rule everything, and the characters need to be more than the sum of what is written on their character sheets. DMs must offer not only the kind of quests and goals that make one a hero, but must create the situations in which true heroism is separated from mere victory. Finding and destroying the Orb of Ultimate Badness is not heroic unless the PCs are threatened with some sort of *personal* consequence for failing to do so. If players don't care about their characters' not statistical aspects, true heroism isn't likely to occur. Of course, playing that way is not bad or wrong, it is just different. But everyone has to be on the same page. You can't have a DM who visualizes great, epic, tragic heroism and players that just want to engage in tactical brawls. On the flipside, you can't have players (or worse yet, one of a number of players) who want to explore what it means to be a hero and have a DM who wants to see how many beholders it takes to TPK the party. [/QUOTE]

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