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<blockquote data-quote="ThoughtBubble" data-source="post: 1333057" data-attributes="member: 9723">AFGNCAAP, your expierences sound a lot like mine.However, I did make one major mistake. I made it too hard. Doing the right thing, in my game, came with its share of pain. And so I completely crushed any want in my players to try and do the right thing. It was too painful. And, much to my chagrin, when some of my players ran games, they did the same thing.That's why I've started harping on rewards and relevance. It doesn't matter how many good deeds you do, if it never amounts to anything. If all you mange is to get the Dark Lord to burn down the last bastion of good, then what have you accomplished? Did the choice to fight really matter? Sometimes you'll have strongly motivated characters and players who'll take the blows, and despite how hopeless it looks, they'll press on. Other times, you'll have people who won't be able to take how hopeless it seems when you just can't make a difference.How do you get past that point? To get me past that point as a player, I have to believe that I can still make a difference, that my choices matter. And finally, I have to trust the DM. As a DM, all my heroes are grown.Anyway, it sound like your group isn't cut out for the whole heroism thing anyway. If you're still going to try though, I suggest trying a little ego feeding. After their successful victory (gotta start on a good foot, right?), have the villagers throw a party for them, filled with cheering. Maybe next time, they'll be on the lookout for someone to help.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="ThoughtBubble, post: 1333057, member: 9723"] AFGNCAAP, your expierences sound a lot like mine. However, I did make one major mistake. I made it too hard. Doing the right thing, in my game, came with its share of pain. And so I completely crushed any want in my players to try and do the right thing. It was too painful. And, much to my chagrin, when some of my players ran games, they did the same thing. That's why I've started harping on rewards and relevance. It doesn't matter how many good deeds you do, if it never amounts to anything. If all you mange is to get the Dark Lord to burn down the last bastion of good, then what have you accomplished? Did the choice to fight really matter? Sometimes you'll have strongly motivated characters and players who'll take the blows, and despite how hopeless it looks, they'll press on. Other times, you'll have people who won't be able to take how hopeless it seems when you just can't make a difference. How do you get past that point? To get me past that point as a player, I have to believe that I can still make a difference, that my choices matter. And finally, I have to trust the DM. As a DM, all my heroes are grown. Anyway, it sound like your group isn't cut out for the whole heroism thing anyway. If you're still going to try though, I suggest trying a little ego feeding. After their successful victory (gotta start on a good foot, right?), have the villagers throw a party for them, filled with cheering. Maybe next time, they'll be on the lookout for someone to help. [/QUOTE]

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