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Message: <blockquote data-quote="ThoughtBubble" data-source="post: 2174729" data-attributes="member: 9723">Well, as by the obvious fact that they exist, they are, in fact there. I'm just going to assume that any sarcasm I'm hearing is all on my end.Now, if I assume that you're just trying to ask me to clarify my position, it's that the rules and mechanics for those skills are pale enough (compared to the wealth of information and examples on combat) that consistant, fair, deep and fun rulings on them can be difficult. Thus it falls to arbitration. What's the DC on convincing the princess to run away with me and leave the life of the court behind? Should it be a series of rolls over time? How many? Does it make a position stronger or weaker if a character character is a dazzlingly hansome guy who all the ladies swoon over? How about if I saved her from a dragon? How much can gifts help? Is there a direct cost/influence ratio somewhere that can be used to see how impressed she is with the elven diamond necklace?Now, more importantly, how does count SomeguyIDon'tLike take the rumors that I've been doing this, and does it spur him to take a political offensive and fall into my trap of showing that he's actually charging an extra 2% tax and pocketing it? Or is he more likely to make an alliance with Marquis GuyWhoHatesMe, or undermine my alliances?If I wanted to use D&D as a political intrigue game, yes.In case you missed it:Or, to serve as an example, my current DM does stuff within the rules. He's uncomfortable with things outside it because it's hard to know how to deal with them. If I got him a copy of "The DM's Guide to Politics: How to icorporate politics smoothly into a D&D game" he'd try using them. But without some sort of guide, it's hard to even know how to begin to convince the king that he needs to go to war against this other evil kingdom when you're just some wandering vagabond. So we'd probably need a player's guide too, at least if it was going to work within my group.Also, if I slap some other petty noble across the face and challenge him to a duel, is it a diplomacy roll, a bluff roll, an intimidate roll or what? How about if I insult his clothes and lineage while I'm at it? Begin making the real pointSo, to recap my position. Having consistent, well spelled out rules with examples makes it easier for players and DMs to consistently resolve actions. D&D lacks these sorts of things in the forementioned areas. Thus, it's not as easy as it could be to use these areas in a game. End making the real pointNow, if your group is comfortable with politics in D&D, more power to you. I know that as a player, I'd be more comfortable knowing that there was something helping out my DM figure just what is affecting what. This may be part in parcel with my expierences with this group (see above). While I'd love to play in a political game, things like block sheets for motivations, agendas, plots, and deals would be really nice. Hm... Now I've got a side project to think about.</blockquote>

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