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Heroes of the Elemental Chaos
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<blockquote data-quote="Upper_Krust" data-source="post: 5826807" data-attributes="member: 326"><p>Same to you! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I wouldn't level any faster no. But I would advocate using higher level encounters at the epic tier (although I'd nerf the XP by 50% to balance out the tier disparity).</p><p></p><p>What I have found is that the monsters at the epic tier are half as effective (or rather that PCs are twice as powerful).</p><p></p><p>So the difference between a heroic tier elite and a (same level) PC is about the same as an epic tier solo and a (same level) PC.</p><p></p><p>So you can either use monsters that are 4-5 levels higher, or you can instead treat monsters as half as effective:</p><p></p><p>ie. Heroic Tier: 5 standard monsters = typical encounter for 5 pcs</p><p></p><p>Epic Tier: 10 standard monsters = typical encounter for 5 pcs</p><p></p><p>10 standard = 5 elite = 2 solos = 1 super-solo</p><p></p><p>Secondly, you don't smply want epic encounters to be cake-walks. So if you are setting up say 4 encounters you probably want a spread of:</p><p></p><p>-1 EL, +1 EL, +3 EL, +5 EL*</p><p></p><p>*This will probably be something like a 50/50 encounter. Give the PCs a chance to retreat but if they stay to fight, let them know that you will kill them! PCs should not be able to swan into a BBEG's palace and just attack with impunity. </p><p></p><p> </p><p></p><p>Possibly. But why have 6-10 stat-block entries without making them all relevant?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The epic tier was designed and populated with 'filler' monsters. Instead, what they should have done for each Monster Manual was take 10 epic themes and made 8-12 monsters around each:</p><p></p><p>10. The Temple At the End of Time (Temporal)</p><p>9. The Spidered Mind (Far Realm)</p><p>8. The Brass Citadel (Elemental Chaos)</p><p>7. Palace of Orcus (Abyss)</p><p>6. The Pandorum Prison (Space)</p><p>5. The Graveyard of Swords (Shadowfell)</p><p>4. Golden Pyramid of Bes (Astral)</p><p>3. The Forest of Intestines (Feywild)</p><p>2. Iron Tower of Dispater (Hells)</p><p>1. Lost City of Zargon (World)</p><p></p><p>This way WotC could have in effect created a whole epic campaign. </p><p></p><p>Add in a few paragraphs on how to link one theme into the next, add a few paragraphs on how to expand each theme.</p><p></p><p>Next Monster Manual add another ten themes, with a further ten in Monster Manual 3.</p><p></p><p>By that point, instead of having a random collection of monsters they could have had 30 major themes that would cover enough variety and enough of a level spread to accomodate anyone's campaign.</p><p></p><p>Instead what we've got are a mixed bag of monsters and BBEGs with little thematic connection.</p><p></p><p> </p><p></p><p>I don't know if there are sweet spots for adventuring...though there may well be sweet spots for resources.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>You could always lower her by 5 levels but make each 'half' a solo monster rather than an elite. That turns her into a super-solo.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>My current suggestions would be:</p><p></p><p>Elite 16-20 = Hero-deity</p><p>Elite 21-25 = Quasi-deity</p><p>Elite 26-30 = Demi-deity</p><p>Elite 31-35 = Lesser Deity</p><p>Elite 36-40 = Greater Deity</p><p></p><p>Effective +5 Levels (or just change to solo) if encountered on home plane.</p><p></p><p>e.g. Orcus = Level 33 Elite (Level 33 solo on home plane)</p><p></p><p>However, the way the epic tier PCs get a boost it might be better turning epic tier BBEG's into super-solo monsters.</p><p></p><p>e.g. Imix = Level 32 Elite (Level 32 solo on home plane), converts to Level 27 solo (Level 27 super-solo on home plane).</p><p></p><p><u>On Home Plane</u></p><p></p><p>Super-solo 21-25 = Demi-deity</p><p>Super-solo 26-30 = Lesser Deity</p><p>Super-solo 31-35 = Greater Deity</p><p>Super-solo 36-40 = Elder Deity</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Zuggtmoy is one of the rare exceptions but I'd still prefer maybe 6-10 accompanying stat-blocks for every unique BBEG.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Upper_Krust, post: 5826807, member: 326"] Same to you! :) I wouldn't level any faster no. But I would advocate using higher level encounters at the epic tier (although I'd nerf the XP by 50% to balance out the tier disparity). What I have found is that the monsters at the epic tier are half as effective (or rather that PCs are twice as powerful). So the difference between a heroic tier elite and a (same level) PC is about the same as an epic tier solo and a (same level) PC. So you can either use monsters that are 4-5 levels higher, or you can instead treat monsters as half as effective: ie. Heroic Tier: 5 standard monsters = typical encounter for 5 pcs Epic Tier: 10 standard monsters = typical encounter for 5 pcs 10 standard = 5 elite = 2 solos = 1 super-solo Secondly, you don't smply want epic encounters to be cake-walks. So if you are setting up say 4 encounters you probably want a spread of: -1 EL, +1 EL, +3 EL, +5 EL* *This will probably be something like a 50/50 encounter. Give the PCs a chance to retreat but if they stay to fight, let them know that you will kill them! PCs should not be able to swan into a BBEG's palace and just attack with impunity. Possibly. But why have 6-10 stat-block entries without making them all relevant? The epic tier was designed and populated with 'filler' monsters. Instead, what they should have done for each Monster Manual was take 10 epic themes and made 8-12 monsters around each: 10. The Temple At the End of Time (Temporal) 9. The Spidered Mind (Far Realm) 8. The Brass Citadel (Elemental Chaos) 7. Palace of Orcus (Abyss) 6. The Pandorum Prison (Space) 5. The Graveyard of Swords (Shadowfell) 4. Golden Pyramid of Bes (Astral) 3. The Forest of Intestines (Feywild) 2. Iron Tower of Dispater (Hells) 1. Lost City of Zargon (World) This way WotC could have in effect created a whole epic campaign. Add in a few paragraphs on how to link one theme into the next, add a few paragraphs on how to expand each theme. Next Monster Manual add another ten themes, with a further ten in Monster Manual 3. By that point, instead of having a random collection of monsters they could have had 30 major themes that would cover enough variety and enough of a level spread to accomodate anyone's campaign. Instead what we've got are a mixed bag of monsters and BBEGs with little thematic connection. I don't know if there are sweet spots for adventuring...though there may well be sweet spots for resources. You could always lower her by 5 levels but make each 'half' a solo monster rather than an elite. That turns her into a super-solo. My current suggestions would be: Elite 16-20 = Hero-deity Elite 21-25 = Quasi-deity Elite 26-30 = Demi-deity Elite 31-35 = Lesser Deity Elite 36-40 = Greater Deity Effective +5 Levels (or just change to solo) if encountered on home plane. e.g. Orcus = Level 33 Elite (Level 33 solo on home plane) However, the way the epic tier PCs get a boost it might be better turning epic tier BBEG's into super-solo monsters. e.g. Imix = Level 32 Elite (Level 32 solo on home plane), converts to Level 27 solo (Level 27 super-solo on home plane). [U]On Home Plane[/U] Super-solo 21-25 = Demi-deity Super-solo 26-30 = Lesser Deity Super-solo 31-35 = Greater Deity Super-solo 36-40 = Elder Deity Zuggtmoy is one of the rare exceptions but I'd still prefer maybe 6-10 accompanying stat-blocks for every unique BBEG. [/QUOTE]
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