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Message: <blockquote data-quote="13garth13" data-source="post: 5845139" data-attributes="member: 16979">You know, these sorts of arguments (which invariably summon up Heracles, Cuculain, et al) would be a lot more compelling if the characters involved weren't at least partly (and in some cases fully) divine.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />And, in some people's minds (which does not make it better than your opinion, but you sure gotta respect it as a valid opinion) having a normal mortal do things that demi-gods of myth and legend could do does not make for a fun game.   Some of us like our rogues and fighters to be street smart, tough-arse brawlers and battle hardened warriors, not super-heroes capable of divine-level feats of mythological prowess.  Some people balk at the idea of a regular ol' human/dwarf etc doing something that if they saw an action hero do it in a movie would shout, "Oh come on!" at the screen, but see no problem with someone who studies arcane secrets in forbidden tomes blasting out balls of fire because that just makes sense to them.  Wizards cast spells which by definition are unreal ergo are allowed to be fantastic and world-altering.  But that dude over there in the chainmail with the battle axe?   If he jumps forty feet up in the air and starts running on branches I'm turning off the movie/playing a different game/putting down the book with a sigh.It doesn't have to make sense to you, but you can't presume that this is the wrong way to play D&D, anymore than your way is the wrong way.There's a little too much heat from people about these sorts of issues....take a deep breath and remember that your fun and your notions of acceptable genre tropes aren't going to float everyone's boat.  And that is OKAY!  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />For my money, the Book of Nine Swords was one of the best books on the planet for triggering my gag-reflex, but I didn't engage in any online bashing, 'cause I thought, hey, it's an optional book, I don't have to incorporate any of that silliness if I don't want to, and if somebody else wants it in their game, more power to them.  Of course, had I known that the entire next edition of D&D was going to pull serious lessons from said book, I may not have been so quiet <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />.And that is one of the problems that I (and many others) had with 4E that 5E (whatever it ends up being called) will have to avoid, and that is having such a hard-coded play-style/atmosphere to this game we all used to enjoy in so many different ways.Anyhoo, tldr, not everyone thinks that the feats of a demi-god are what a mortal warrior should be capable of, and that's no more wrong than your preferences for more legendary feats of wahooness.   5E (unlike its predecessor) will have to satisfy both of us.Cheers,Colin</blockquote>

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