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Message: <blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 5845187" data-attributes="member: 2011">Mostly in 4E.For 34 years, first level PCs were not quite heroes yet. They fought. They often won. They might be considered heroes after the fact, but until 4E, they were paper tigers who could be wiped out via a small string of unlucky die rolls by a small group of low level NPCs (and pre-3E, zero hit points meant dead).4E was the first edition that gave all PCs the survivability and the tools (like At Will powers for spell casters) to possibly even be considered heroes who could hold off waves of attacking kobolds. Anymore, the word hero is banded about right and left. But when AD&D first came out, it was a word reserved for 4th level Fighters and NPCs out of Deities and Demigods. When AD&D first came out, PCs were Acolytes and Apprentices, not heroes. They were cautious because they were vulnerable, they weren't cocky because they were so tough.Conan wasn't a hero in the stories when he first set out. He was the protagonist, but not a hero. It's easy to confuse the two. Heroics means deeds that normal NPCs cannot achieve. Above and beyond, not something anyone can do with a lucky die roll.The game has morphed over time to allow first level PCs to be heroes because it is very difficult (shy of the DMing going outside the XP guidelines) for PCs to die (and it's fairly easy anymore to get them brought back from the dead). They are heroes not just because of their deeds, but because of the difficulty for NPCs to wipe them out. PCs almost win by default anymore. One of the early complaints from some players was that 4E first level PCs were like 4th level PCs from earlier editions. So yes, the game has morphed towards a more powerful PC, even at first level.But even that aside, the argument that since Thor exists, superhero high level PCs of every class should exist in D&D isn't that strong.There's nothing wrong with the concept of D&D heroes, even at first level. It's the superhero concept that bugs some people.</blockquote>

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