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<blockquote data-quote="Hillsy7" data-source="post: 7184723" data-attributes="member: 6689191">I Kinda took it to mean that almost self-destructive trope....the 'I'll move outside the law to protect the law' sort of thing. The person who sacrifices his hope of redemption. Flynn from Timeless falls into this category (Though he's more evil), Luthar (TV detective), Anton from Night Watch......Lan Mandragoran is kinda there, and Warden's from WoT in general, though it's a bit of a stretch.....but splitting hairs aside, I think it's a strong enough archetype to carry a class IMOThis one is interesting - I think the &quot;Ranger&quot; archetype appears a lot in ensemble stories or as secondary heroes - there's a need for someone who knows the place and has &quot;tamed&quot; it alone and so he gets recruited. Again perhaps not classic fantasy, but a strong archetype....I wouldn't disagree - mechanically when you look at the rough archetypes WotC made sensible choices when they had to. Wizards and Sorceror's got welded to magic when you could argue it's not inherent - Rogue's Sneak Attack is kinda implied though (Villain turns round and his henchmen are out cold) - Warlock's power comes from their secret curse/benefactor/possession......Personally most good archetypes I think infer a natural mechanic, and they line up pretty well. Yeah they don't reflect everything, and there's some legacy carryover, but it feels quite natural to me...But basically at the moment I keep thinking of the obvious archetypes rather than the subtler ones which would be interesting. Someone existing in two worlds (Part human, part [insert thing here]) I think is common enough you see a lot of people homebrew that, as it feels unrepresented. Shapeshifters, elementalists....hell I did a transformational archetype myself. Can't but think though I've missed loads of really strong archetypes with really clear identities that lift them out of &quot;generic fighter&quot;.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Hillsy7, post: 7184723, member: 6689191"] I Kinda took it to mean that almost self-destructive trope....the 'I'll move outside the law to protect the law' sort of thing. The person who sacrifices his hope of redemption. Flynn from Timeless falls into this category (Though he's more evil), Luthar (TV detective), Anton from Night Watch......Lan Mandragoran is kinda there, and Warden's from WoT in general, though it's a bit of a stretch.....but splitting hairs aside, I think it's a strong enough archetype to carry a class IMO This one is interesting - I think the "Ranger" archetype appears a lot in ensemble stories or as secondary heroes - there's a need for someone who knows the place and has "tamed" it alone and so he gets recruited. Again perhaps not classic fantasy, but a strong archetype.... I wouldn't disagree - mechanically when you look at the rough archetypes WotC made sensible choices when they had to. Wizards and Sorceror's got welded to magic when you could argue it's not inherent - Rogue's Sneak Attack is kinda implied though (Villain turns round and his henchmen are out cold) - Warlock's power comes from their secret curse/benefactor/possession...... Personally most good archetypes I think infer a natural mechanic, and they line up pretty well. Yeah they don't reflect everything, and there's some legacy carryover, but it feels quite natural to me... But basically at the moment I keep thinking of the obvious archetypes rather than the subtler ones which would be interesting. Someone existing in two worlds (Part human, part [insert thing here]) I think is common enough you see a lot of people homebrew that, as it feels unrepresented. Shapeshifters, elementalists....hell I did a transformational archetype myself. Can't but think though I've missed loads of really strong archetypes with really clear identities that lift them out of "generic fighter". [/QUOTE]

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