Level Up (A5E) Heroic monsters and animal companions

[Verall]

The new rules for heroic monsters seem really cool!
However, don’t they effectively penalise anyone who gets a scaling companion as part of their class?
You could find yourself in a position where 1 party memeber has a mastiff as per houndmaster,
“https://a5e.tools/node/3728”
and another could just get a mastiff and give it heroic levels?
It is in a way free power that the pet options would miss out on.

wouldn’t you be better off not picking any of the pet options from here on out and just getting animal handling and some heroic monsters seem levels?

 

[W'rkncacnter]

the simple solution here is to just...not use the heroic monster rules for party pets if a player is using one of these subclasses. you could also let that player swap subclasses and have the heroic pet instead.

 

[Verall]

the simple solution here is to just...not use the heroic monster rules for party pets if a player is using one of these subclasses. you could also let that player swap subclasses and have the heroic pet instead.

I agree, it’s just a little disappointing to have this shiny new system that feels at odds with existing player features.

 

[W'rkncacnter]

I agree, it’s just a little disappointing to have this shiny new system that feels at odds with existing player features.

it's only one specific use of it that's at odds with player features. there's still plenty of other reasons to use heroic monsters.

 

[xiphumor]

Have we considered the fact that allied heroic monsters only level up every other time the party does, while archetype-companions gain bonuses every time?

 

[Verall]

Have we considered the fact that allied heroic monsters only level up every other time the party does, while archetype-companions gain bonuses every time?

thats not nessesarily true, my pc is a dreadknight with the dread steed feature so i would only improve everyother level and thats only if i stay in the class, a heroic pet will level up regardless of class levels.

i do recognise that heroic monsters are a really cool idea, i was just looking forward to them and was dissapointed to find it wouldnt work for me.

 

[Micah Sweet]

the simple solution here is to just...not use the heroic monster rules for party pets if a player is using one of these subclasses. you could also let that player swap subclasses and have the heroic pet instead.

That second one is what I'd do.

 

[Tessarael]

Many of the A5E and 5E D&D rules that animal companions, familiars, steeds, etc., scale poorly with character level. I agree that the Houndmaster archetype for Fighter, Beastmaster archetype for Ranger, and Gyre Gazer archetype for Warlock have much less of a scaling issue, and may not need the heroic monster scaling. 5E D&D also has the Sidekick rules to level up such companions. I'm a bit surprised that the heroic monster scaling article didn't mention familiars, as that seems an obvious application for it.

I think this basically comes down to what the DM and the players want in the campaign. If the party is short on PCs, then an animal companion that levels up at half their rate to stay more useful will be helpful, but still fall behind unless buffed, given magic items, etc. Some players may also want their familiar, pet, or steed to remain useful at higher levels ... So if the DM wants to allow that with no cost, fine, otherwise I'd be inclined to charge say a feat, eldritch invocation, divine lesson or similar for it to balance it out vs. other players.

Assuming the heroic animal companion only levels up every other level the PC does, what do you get from it at as say an 8th level character? The heroic animal companion will be level 4. I don't have Monstrous Menagerie II, but I assume from the article the benefits are the following:

• +40 HP <--- This is the biggest improvement for survivability.
• +2d6 damage once/turn <--- This is the biggest improvement for damage output.
• +1 AC
• Proficiency bonus improves to +3
• Initiative bonus also improves +1
• 2 saving throw proficiencies (e.g., Strength, Constitution)
• One heroic feature

All of these are good to keep the animal companion relevant. I do think if you charge a feat for it, it's not going to even be too good for Beastmaster, Gyre Gazer, or Houndmaster; though I'd be inclined to not give the additional HP from both sources, and instead give +1 to an ability instead if you have one of those archetypes and are paying a feat for this.