Heroic Tragedy?

[resistor]

Are there any campaign settings/roleplaying systems out there that support playing in the heroic tragedy genre?

My feeling is that stock D&D doesn't support the genre very well. It encourages more of a pragmatic style of play. I'm looking more for a feeling of heroes standing up to great evil that they know they have no hope of defeating.

I'm aware of the Midnight setting, but I was under the impression that it was more of a gritty kind of game, which isn't really what I'm looking for. I'm thinking more along the lines of the Silmarillion and the heroics of the Noldor princes against a god they knew they could not defeat.

 

[kolikeos]

this requires more a good story telling dm then a setting or system.
you can make it feel like a heroic tragedy wether its forgotten realms or planescape, d20 or gurps. if you're good at making that feeling.
i myself cannot deliver any kind of feeling into my game, no matter what i try. my games will always be hack n slash and lots o jokes even though i would really like it to be stealthy and horror type, it doen't matter which setting i use.

 

[WayneLigon]

The setting doesn't matter and the 'stock D&D' thing doesn't matter if the players aren't going to cooperate. If they want to be pragmatic all the time and always choose the very best and quickest route to rewward with the least amount of personal danger then no setting in the world is going to change that. They have to change, not the setting.

 

[S'mon]

I'm aware of the Midnight setting, but I was under the impression that it was more of a gritty kind of game, which isn't really what I'm looking for. I'm thinking more along the lines of the Silmarillion and the heroics of the Noldor princes against a god they knew they could not defeat.

The Midnight campaign I played was like this, rather than forage-for-rotten-turnips. Midnight is a great heroic tragedy setting and many of the rules elements like the Heroic Paths support heroic play, I'd recommend getting it and play it Silmarilion style, maybe start PCs out higher level (5th?). Beware of Channelers, in Midnight 1e they were hugely overpowered, though.

 

[S'mon]

Some players take Midnight to be all about the misery & hopelessness, but it supports a "last heroes" theme with many dramatic elements and hard choices, which IMO is where genuine heroism lies. For heroic game I'd recommend using Fate Points so PCs don't die too often.

 

[resistor]

Maybe I'll have to look closer at Midnight then.

I was always fascinated by the tragic heroics of the Noldor in the Silmarillion, and by the story of Turin Turambar. I'm very interested in the use of Fate as a story element. And I do feel that the heroes who die standing up to the impossible are the ones who matter. After all, according to Tolkien's Prophecy of Mandos, it is Turin Turambar who will return at the end of the world to strike down Melkor. I feel that I'm in good company with my fascination with the topic. ;-)

 

[Rogue765]

How about Ravenloft?

 

[resistor]

How about Ravenloft?

I thought that was horror?

 

[Nareau]

Back when I played werewolf/mage/wraith/changeling/vampire, pretty much the entire WoD was set up with the "fighting against all hope" theme. Don't know if it's still that way, but the setting was perfect for tragic heroes.

Spider

 

[S'mon]

Maybe I'll have to look closer at Midnight then.

I was always fascinated by the tragic heroics of the Noldor in the Silmarillion, and by the story of Turin Turambar. I'm very interested in the use of Fate as a story element. And I do feel that the heroes who die standing up to the impossible are the ones who matter. After all, according to Tolkien's Prophecy of Mandos, it is Turin Turambar who will return at the end of the world to strike down Melkor. I feel that I'm in good company with my fascination with the topic. ;-)

Maybe it was my GM (Stalkingblue) but the Midnight campaign I played was very much reminiscent of Tolkienesque heroic tragedy, albeit at a lower level than Melkor vs Fingolfin. The Midnight setting book evokes the mood & theme very well I think, and the D&D rules with Heroic Paths and covenant items very much supports this style of play. There's a netbook supplement that goes way overboard on the misery & hopelessness, I would avoid it. Take a look at the Against the Shadow Midnight forums, some players latch on to the misery & hopelessness but others play it the way we did - which is much better for longer term play IMO, the m&h campaigns seem to die quickly. Our game did suffer from too many PC deaths (eventually 100% of the starting group), which is why I'd definitely say use Fate Points imported from eg Conan RPG or Warhammer FRP - PCs start with 3 and spend them to be 'left for dead' instead of dying, GM can award more for heroic achievements etc.