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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 5481660" data-attributes="member: 87792">I'd expect +3 for many slayers. And the stances are at least a further +2. The weapon difference is worth about a further +d4 damage. By this point we're into the realm of 3+d4 vs 2d6. Yes, the thief still wins the damage stakes. But the thief is incredibly vulnerable to being knocked prone or dazed - at which point they can no longer use a move action and hence a trick and so are much less likely to have combat advantage, dropping their damage to leader level. Also the slayer has a lot of hit points - melee rogues are the single most likely to die class in the game, whereas the slayer can wear scale and stand on the battleline as a less sticky tank. Edit: See also the comment about the thief being overpowered.  Rogues have in 4e always been strong at first level due to the power of sneak attack.</blockquote>