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"He's beyond my healing ability..."
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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 5613739" data-attributes="member: 4937"><p>This attitude I don't understand.</p><p></p><p>Why shouldn't the players just tell the DM to "get over himself". It <em>is</em> a game. </p><p></p><p>Saying that "it's drama" is so meaningless as to be a non-statement. If the players heal the dying NPC, that's also drama. Saving the life of a dying NPC at the last moment is also a dramatic trope. Why does the DM get to sole authority to decide which trope will be used and when? Who is really the one "full of themselves" at this point? Is it really the PC who says, "I cast cure light wounds?" or the DM who says, "No, you can't do that because it would derail my story?" Who is really acting like a jerk here, the guy who says, "I cast cure moderate wounds to save the NPC's life", or the guy who says, "Well, if you do that you can all just go home, because I refuse to play any more."</p><p></p><p>Let's not speak ambigiously and say, "This works if it is desired by the plot." as if the plot was some animate object in possession of its own will in the matter. What we are really saying is, "This works if it is desired by me." So I don't think its the player who needs to be getting over themselves.</p><p></p><p>Let's not put too fine a point on it. Suppose the NPC is a -11. Technically he's dead, and the DM wishes him to remain in this cognizant state - though dead - for an indeterminate amount of time so he can <em>monologue</em> and engender or build pathos. </p><p></p><p>DM: "I'm dying Horatio. You were always good to me."</p><p>Player (as Horatio): "Oh Juliet, never be parted from me." </p><p>Player to DM: I try to use my Heal skill to stablize Juliet.</p><p>DM: No its beyond your skill. </p><p>DM: "I feel the blackness encrouching on me. Hold me Horatio."</p><p>Player: Ok, I cast 'Cure Serious Wounds' and reach down to hold Juliet.</p><p>DM: No, its beyond your power to heal this wound. Her body is too far gone; she's basically dead already, only her love for you and her desire not to be parted from you are holding her in this world.</p><p>Player: Wow. Ok, in that case I cast 'Raise Dead' using my Rod of Ressurection.</p><p>DM: What?? You can't do that. She's not dead.</p><p>Player: Well, if she's not dead, why can't I heal her? What is she, dead or alive.</p><p>DM: Ok, she's mechanically 'dead', but her spirit doesn't want to return to the mortal world.</p><p>Player: But didn't you just say that the only reason she was conscious was that she wanted to be with me?</p><p>DM: Ok, fine, you win. Juliet is alive and you can live happily ever after. Just go home. I don't want to play anymore.</p><p></p><p>I ask my fellow DMs as a DM; just how far are you going to take this whole "I have to get my way" thing? At what point will you concede that the PC can derail your plans, and if you won't concede it here then when? At what point does frustrating the players attempt to play take the focus off the drama in the story and just create table drama?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 5613739, member: 4937"] This attitude I don't understand. Why shouldn't the players just tell the DM to "get over himself". It [I]is[/I] a game. Saying that "it's drama" is so meaningless as to be a non-statement. If the players heal the dying NPC, that's also drama. Saving the life of a dying NPC at the last moment is also a dramatic trope. Why does the DM get to sole authority to decide which trope will be used and when? Who is really the one "full of themselves" at this point? Is it really the PC who says, "I cast cure light wounds?" or the DM who says, "No, you can't do that because it would derail my story?" Who is really acting like a jerk here, the guy who says, "I cast cure moderate wounds to save the NPC's life", or the guy who says, "Well, if you do that you can all just go home, because I refuse to play any more." Let's not speak ambigiously and say, "This works if it is desired by the plot." as if the plot was some animate object in possession of its own will in the matter. What we are really saying is, "This works if it is desired by me." So I don't think its the player who needs to be getting over themselves. Let's not put too fine a point on it. Suppose the NPC is a -11. Technically he's dead, and the DM wishes him to remain in this cognizant state - though dead - for an indeterminate amount of time so he can [I]monologue[/I] and engender or build pathos. DM: "I'm dying Horatio. You were always good to me." Player (as Horatio): "Oh Juliet, never be parted from me." Player to DM: I try to use my Heal skill to stablize Juliet. DM: No its beyond your skill. DM: "I feel the blackness encrouching on me. Hold me Horatio." Player: Ok, I cast 'Cure Serious Wounds' and reach down to hold Juliet. DM: No, its beyond your power to heal this wound. Her body is too far gone; she's basically dead already, only her love for you and her desire not to be parted from you are holding her in this world. Player: Wow. Ok, in that case I cast 'Raise Dead' using my Rod of Ressurection. DM: What?? You can't do that. She's not dead. Player: Well, if she's not dead, why can't I heal her? What is she, dead or alive. DM: Ok, she's mechanically 'dead', but her spirit doesn't want to return to the mortal world. Player: But didn't you just say that the only reason she was conscious was that she wanted to be with me? DM: Ok, fine, you win. Juliet is alive and you can live happily ever after. Just go home. I don't want to play anymore. I ask my fellow DMs as a DM; just how far are you going to take this whole "I have to get my way" thing? At what point will you concede that the PC can derail your plans, and if you won't concede it here then when? At what point does frustrating the players attempt to play take the focus off the drama in the story and just create table drama? [/QUOTE]
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