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Message: <blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 5623837" data-attributes="member: 42582">Quickleaf hasn't said this. Majestic Word didn't work - but whether a power that allows death to be delayed or reversed, or even a more powerful heal-all power or potion, would work, wasn't explored (presumably the PCs didn't have access to such magic).In my posts talking about how I might run this sort of situation, and have run a somewhat similar situation, I've made it clear that a range of magic might work, including the Remove Affliction ritual.In what way did Quickleaf switch off the abilities of the players in his game to influence the fiction via their PCs?There's a lengthy discussion upthread, involving me, Quickleaf, Crazy Jerome and maybe others, about hard scene framing, colour vs conflict, etc. I've expressed my views there. TL;DR - it depends on the group, the context etc. Unless you were at Quickleaf's table, I don't think you can know what was going on there in terms of the reasonableness of the GM force he used.This is exactly why I've said that 4e makes Quickleaf's scenario easy to run. Because the rules of 4e manifestly permit injuries that mere hit point healing cannot deal with - it's just that there is no way for ordinary attacks by monsters or PCs to inflict those injuries via the typical action resolution mechanics. Hence the need to inflict the injury in question via scene framing rather than scene resolution. But once the scene has been framed, no action resolution mechanics need to be suspended to make the injury unhealable by PCs who have access only to hit point healing.In Quickleaf's case, furthermore, the PCs only had access to surge-dependent hit point healing, and the NPC had no surges remaining.So Quickleaf's scenario (and my scenario, in which the PCs came across injuries - including maiming and blinding - that hit point healing magic couldn't heal) doesn't require changing any rules. It just requires stipulating, indpendependently of the action resolution rules, that the injuries in question were inflicted in battle. Hence the significance of the scene-framing/scene-resolution distinction.I agree with Janx that introducing magic or poisons should not be necessary to create the desired scene. Happily for me, I run a game - 4e - in which they are not necessary, because the scene can be framed and then adjudicated without needing house rules (other than pretty standard adjudication, like thinking about what sorts of injuries Remove Affliction might heal).</blockquote>

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