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"He's beyond my healing ability..."
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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 5624391" data-attributes="member: 4937"><p>Good. I've already mentioned that back in the July 14 9:43 post.</p><p></p><p>"But for the purposes of scene resolution, then I think that players have a reasonable expectation that everything that they interact with will obey some sort of knowable rule, even if only 'common sense'." - Me</p><p></p><p>So your real rule is: "Characters can get a death speech when it makes sense." But that is not only more of a guideline than a rule, I can easily claim that it applies to my game as well. Sure, where it <em>makes sense</em>, characters can get a death speech. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Justice is meant to be blind. A good rule requires as little interpretation as possible. Otherwise, it's just sort of a guideline. I respect the DM's authority to break the rules occasionally, but if there is a better alternative course available I would advise taking it.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>For a guy who sites the importance of common sense with such stridence, you seem to be very willing to suspend it when it suits you. My intuitive understanding of 'dead' is that it would work alot like being dead. Does common sense tell you the dead should be talking?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I believe I've already addressed this as well, when I wrote:</p><p></p><p>"It's one thing to have an argument about scene framing and say, "Well, for the purposes of scene framing, a DM doesn't have to play out the scene. He can simply construct the scene by fiat - the destroyed fort for example - without doing the game mechanics resolution - he doesn't have to run the battle or establish the army size from precise calculations of the regions demographics. A DM doesn't have to exactly prove that the band of Hill Giants can find enough food in the arid badlands to survive. A DM only has to make these events and decisions plausible, so that the players don't have suspension of disbelief harmed by finding 8 hill giants living behind a sealed door in a 30'x30' room deep in a dungeon down a 5' wide corridor with no apparant means of egress or physical support." - Me</p><p></p><p>So where you are going with this tangent I haven't a clue, but its certainly not based on anything I've been saying. It certainly doesn't seem to follow from anything you quoted.</p><p></p><p>We aren't talking about off scene events or scene framing, but scene resolution. This is happening 'on stage'.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Sure I have. I've even framed a scene where they find some injured survivors, or even injured and dying survivors. I've just never told my players, "You can't heal this guy just because."</p><p></p><p>However, oppurtunities for death speeches have been rare. Both PC's and important NPC's tend to die in epic fashions that don't leave a lot of room for lengthy soliloquy, or they die in lonely ways where it wouldn't matter what they said. Or they just have better things to do while they are dying than to give lengthy monologues, like you know, try to prevent their deaths.</p><p></p><p>My current game integrates the way I played GURPS, so that if you fall to 0 hit points or less you make a fortitude save to remain conscious. If you succeed, you are staggered and bleeding but conscious. This gives some time for saying something before you die. I have no general problem with that. The problem I have is the cut scene like nature of finding a survivor who dies regardless of what you do. I don't even like cut scenes like that in video games, much less in a PnP game where the DM can apply common sense.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I have no intention of ridiculing you.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 5624391, member: 4937"] Good. I've already mentioned that back in the July 14 9:43 post. "But for the purposes of scene resolution, then I think that players have a reasonable expectation that everything that they interact with will obey some sort of knowable rule, even if only 'common sense'." - Me So your real rule is: "Characters can get a death speech when it makes sense." But that is not only more of a guideline than a rule, I can easily claim that it applies to my game as well. Sure, where it [I]makes sense[/I], characters can get a death speech. Justice is meant to be blind. A good rule requires as little interpretation as possible. Otherwise, it's just sort of a guideline. I respect the DM's authority to break the rules occasionally, but if there is a better alternative course available I would advise taking it. For a guy who sites the importance of common sense with such stridence, you seem to be very willing to suspend it when it suits you. My intuitive understanding of 'dead' is that it would work alot like being dead. Does common sense tell you the dead should be talking? I believe I've already addressed this as well, when I wrote: "It's one thing to have an argument about scene framing and say, "Well, for the purposes of scene framing, a DM doesn't have to play out the scene. He can simply construct the scene by fiat - the destroyed fort for example - without doing the game mechanics resolution - he doesn't have to run the battle or establish the army size from precise calculations of the regions demographics. A DM doesn't have to exactly prove that the band of Hill Giants can find enough food in the arid badlands to survive. A DM only has to make these events and decisions plausible, so that the players don't have suspension of disbelief harmed by finding 8 hill giants living behind a sealed door in a 30'x30' room deep in a dungeon down a 5' wide corridor with no apparant means of egress or physical support." - Me So where you are going with this tangent I haven't a clue, but its certainly not based on anything I've been saying. It certainly doesn't seem to follow from anything you quoted. We aren't talking about off scene events or scene framing, but scene resolution. This is happening 'on stage'. Sure I have. I've even framed a scene where they find some injured survivors, or even injured and dying survivors. I've just never told my players, "You can't heal this guy just because." However, oppurtunities for death speeches have been rare. Both PC's and important NPC's tend to die in epic fashions that don't leave a lot of room for lengthy soliloquy, or they die in lonely ways where it wouldn't matter what they said. Or they just have better things to do while they are dying than to give lengthy monologues, like you know, try to prevent their deaths. My current game integrates the way I played GURPS, so that if you fall to 0 hit points or less you make a fortitude save to remain conscious. If you succeed, you are staggered and bleeding but conscious. This gives some time for saying something before you die. I have no general problem with that. The problem I have is the cut scene like nature of finding a survivor who dies regardless of what you do. I don't even like cut scenes like that in video games, much less in a PnP game where the DM can apply common sense. I have no intention of ridiculing you. [/QUOTE]
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