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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Greenfield" data-source="post: 5630481" data-attributes="member: 6669384">Water Bob, you've touched on something important, then let it slip away.The last wound may or may not have caused the shock.  In all probability it was the sum total of his injuries that have been adding to it all the way.In any case, if someone is suffering from shock to the point of collapse, that's what you treat for.As an example:  Once upon a time, real world, I got hit by a car while bicycling home from work.  The Paramedics got me to the hospital in near record time and they checked me out.  I was in the waiting room, waiting for my ride home (the bicycle had been destroyed) when the shock hit.  Dry mouth, cold and clammy, tunnel vision as my blood pressure fell, the whole thing.  The broken hip they missed in the X-Ray would trouble me for years after that, but the shock nearly killed me, then and there.  And no amount of wound binding, bone setting or applying ice to the swelling would have helped.  Hell, if they'd applied ice it probably would have killed me.For the record though, a Heal Check is indeed both a diagnosis roll and a treatment roll.  There are a number of afflictions in the game that call for a Heal check with a specific DC to *detect*.  Not treat or cure, just to detect.The paralyzing touch of a Lich is an example.  The victim will appear to be dead, unless someone makes a DC 20 Spot check, or a DC 15 Heal check.Now you're certainly entitled to play 1st or 2nd Ed (i.e "Olde School Method") with regard to "skills".  (You used that term in quotes, as if you didn't really believe in it.) But if you're discussing this topic under the 3.0 or 3.5 rules, don't expect others to know that you've house ruled to nerf "skills".  And pretending that this isn't a house rule is disingenuous. The fact that you're importing those house rules from some other system doesn't change the fact that they're group-specific changes to the rules.And, if you're going to require some kind of medical knowledge on the part of the player before they're even allowed to attempt a Heal check, it isn't at all silly to suppose that you'd require some other specific knowledge before other skills are allowed to be used.So try this:  A player giving a good description of what they're doing may get a circumstance bonus (or penalty) to the action.  It encourages game color (your "alternate reality"), without the DM telling someone that their characters can't use their "skills" because the player isn't an EMT, or didn't guess right when it came to treatment.</blockquote>

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