Reply to thread

Message

<blockquote data-quote="Mephista" data-source="post: 6634942" data-attributes="member: 6786252">That's the problem with debuffs in the first place.&nbsp;&nbsp; D&amp;D tends to be pretty crappy with them at all.&nbsp; Take a look at Bless and Bane.&nbsp;&nbsp; The two spells are almost mirror reflections of each other- one makes enemies hit less, one makes you hit more often.&nbsp;&nbsp; You would think they're roughly equal.&nbsp;&nbsp; I mean, Bless is considered one of the best spells in the game!&nbsp; &nbsp; However, Bane is generally considered a far less useful spell.&nbsp;&nbsp; Why?Several reasons - 1) Spells that eliminate an enemy are more effective, 2) enemies die fairly quick (~3 round combats) while PCs stay around (making PCs better targets of buffs than debuffs) and 3) enemy gets a save.&nbsp;&nbsp; I mean, really, why is Bane contested?&nbsp; You have to beat their saves in order to make their attacks maybe slightly worse with a 1d4 roll, and that attack might still hit with a good d20?&nbsp; Its the same thing with other so-called curses.&nbsp;&nbsp; Mind Fog.&nbsp; Seems pretty cool, -10 to saves... but you have to beat a WIS Save in the first place before it works.&nbsp; May as well used just a regular Hold Person spell; same save, and the target is effectively dead meat.&nbsp;&nbsp; 99% of the time, its pointless to cast a set-up curse.&nbsp; Setting up combos sounds like fun, but the set up to cast these spells generally doesn't make it worthwhile.&nbsp; Curses are just terrible spells in this game.Bestow Curse isn't too terrible of a spell for non-warlocks, because the WIS-save-or-no-action bit can be good in some situations, using a lower level spell slot for a solid control effect against someone traditionally weak to WIS saves.&nbsp; That said, I'd say its inferior to Hold Person, Banish, or any other number of Save or Suck effects, so those would be a better option to reach for.&nbsp;&nbsp; I'd only go for Bestow Curse if those other options weren't viable.&nbsp; &nbsp; Its a niche effect.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Mephista, post: 6634942, member: 6786252"] That's the problem with debuffs in the first place. D&D tends to be pretty crappy with them at all. Take a look at Bless and Bane. The two spells are almost mirror reflections of each other- one makes enemies hit less, one makes you hit more often. You would think they're roughly equal. I mean, Bless is considered one of the best spells in the game! However, Bane is generally considered a far less useful spell. Why? Several reasons - 1) Spells that eliminate an enemy are more effective, 2) enemies die fairly quick (~3 round combats) while PCs stay around (making PCs better targets of buffs than debuffs) and 3) enemy gets a save. I mean, really, [I]why[/I] is Bane contested? You have to beat their saves in order to make their attacks maybe slightly worse with a 1d4 roll, and that attack might still hit with a good d20? Its the same thing with other so-called curses. Mind Fog. Seems pretty cool, -10 to saves... but you have to beat a WIS Save in the first place before it works. May as well used just a regular Hold Person spell; same save, and the target is effectively dead meat. 99% of the time, its pointless to cast a set-up curse. Setting up combos sounds like fun, but the set up to cast these spells generally doesn't make it worthwhile. Curses are just terrible spells in this game. Bestow Curse isn't too terrible of a spell for non-warlocks, because the WIS-save-or-no-action bit can be good in some situations, using a lower level spell slot for a solid control effect against someone traditionally weak to WIS saves. That said, I'd say its inferior to Hold Person, Banish, or any other number of Save or Suck effects, so those would be a better option to reach for. I'd only go for Bestow Curse if those other options weren't viable. Its a niche effect. [/QUOTE]

Verification