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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ashrym" data-source="post: 6635233" data-attributes="member: 6750235">No concentration.  Hex doesn't list the option to have targets require a saving throw or do nothing.  Bestow curse in a 5th level slot is a shut it down and ignore it ability.  Hex is just more damage and/or ability check penalties on something the character isn't ignoring.Is mind fog in one of the supplements?  I don't see it in the 5e PHB for some reason.  In 3e, mindfog was used because it was an area effect so one person fogs and the other person does whatever.  It would be useless on a single target (but so would hold person if the target isn't humanoid).  A person could have just cast whatever, but this is what happens: 30% save rate gives 70% area targets mezzed.  Fog first and 70% are at 95% while the other 30% are still at 70%.  Following that gets 87.5% of the targets instead of 70% of the targets.If you needed that type of crowd control accuracy then a set up mindfog area prepping for the mezz in 3e would do the trick.  Definitely not a common need unless playing DDO (mindfog discoballs <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" />) instead of tabletop, but the "he would have failed the other spell anyway" isn't entirely correct.  There is an advantage in having both up.  In 5e, concentration would likely kill it if the spell exists and I'm just not seeing it.As for hold person, what if the target isn't a humanoid?  Or what if (I know this is a shocker) the goal isn't to kill the target?Keep in mind, and I can't stress this enough, no concentration control spell.  Unlike hold monster, it can affect undead and there are no repeat saves to break the spell every turn.  Once a person gets it into that 5th level slot it's better than hold or banish because concentration is still available.  You don't have to drop your spirit guardians or bless to cast bestow curse, for example, like I would have to for banishment and while the target is gone what am I left to work with on remaining opponents?.  Bestow curse bypasses one of the biggest restrictions 5e has on spellcasters.</blockquote>

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