Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Hex Shenanigans
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Arial Black" data-source="post: 7986610" data-attributes="member: 6799649"><p>Page 4 of the 5e Monster Manual, under the title 'What Is a Monster', it says:-</p><p></p><p>"A monster is defined as any <strong>creature</strong> (emphasis added) that can be interacted with and potentially fought and killed. Even something as harmless as a frog or as benevolent as a unicorn is a monster by this definition. The term also applies to humans, elves, dwarves, and other civilised folk who might be friends or rivals to the player characters."</p><p></p><p>Therefore, all monsters are creatures, but not all creatures are monsters (in the same way that all poodles are dogs but not all dogs are poodles).</p><p></p><p>So what is the difference between creatures that <strong>are </strong>monsters, and creatures that are <strong>not</strong> monsters?</p><p></p><p>Well, since 'creatures that <strong>are</strong> monsters' are 'creatures that <em>can</em> be interacted with and potentially fought and killed', then 'creatures that are <strong>not</strong> monsters' are 'creatures that <em>cannot</em> be interacted with or fought and potentially killed'.</p><p></p><p>Since 'creature' is not directly defined, and since 5e proudly uses 'natural language', then without a game definition we must assume that 'creature' has its natural language meaning:-</p><p></p><p>Dictionary.com: "noun</p><p>1 an animal, especially a nonhuman</p><p>2 anything created, whether animate or inanmate</p><p>3 person, human being</p><p>4 an animate being"</p><p></p><p>I'm confident that a chicken can be interacted with, and potentially fought and killed. I'm confident that a chicken satisfies one or more of the dictionary definitions of the word 'creature'.</p><p></p><p>The <em>hex</em> spell, like most spells, targets a 'creature'. The player, knowing that by the rules in the MM, by the dictionary definition, and by natural language, knows that a chicken is a creature.</p><p></p><p>The DM says otherwise. Not because he believes it, or that he can point to a rule which shows otherwise, or could point to a dictionary which shows that chickens cannot be described as a creature, but because the DM doesn't like how the player is using a spell.</p><p></p><p>Is the player being unreasonable about what 'creature' means, or is it the DM who's being unreasonable.</p><p></p><p>Note that if the DM insists that chickens are <em>not</em> creatures, then he needs to define what definition of the word 'creature' he is using for 5e. Then, that definition remains the same no matter the intentions or actions of any player or PC.</p><p></p><p>Oh, chickens aren't creatures? Okay, chickens are immune to <em>fireball</em>. "Each <strong>creature</strong> in a 20-foot radius must make a Dexterity saving throw. A target takes 8d6 fire damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one."</p><p></p><p>Shapechange: "You assume the form of a different <em>creature</em> for the duration". If chickens aren't creatures, then you can;t <em>shapechange</em> into one.</p><p></p><p>Power Word: Kill: "You utter a word of power that compel one <em>creature</em> you can see within range to die instantly". Chickens are immune to PWK.</p><p></p><p>Why don't chickens rule the multiverse?</p><p></p><p>Anyway, I <em>hex</em> a puppy. Why? I'm conducting an in game experiment about which creatures are creatures and which aren't.</p><p></p><p>If the DM says that chickens aren't creatures therefore cannot be <em>hex</em>ed, then EITHER he is screwing me over, actually lying to me, OR he has such an esoteric definition of 'creature' that it would change his gameworld into a total farce, with PCs charging into combat in their chicken-suit armour, with <em>fireballs</em> and <em>PWKs</em> bouncing off.</p><p></p><p>I though the motive for 'ruling' that chickens are <em>not</em> 'creatures' was to <strong>avoid </strong>absurdity?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Arial Black, post: 7986610, member: 6799649"] Page 4 of the 5e Monster Manual, under the title 'What Is a Monster', it says:- "A monster is defined as any [B]creature[/B] (emphasis added) that can be interacted with and potentially fought and killed. Even something as harmless as a frog or as benevolent as a unicorn is a monster by this definition. The term also applies to humans, elves, dwarves, and other civilised folk who might be friends or rivals to the player characters." Therefore, all monsters are creatures, but not all creatures are monsters (in the same way that all poodles are dogs but not all dogs are poodles). So what is the difference between creatures that [B]are [/B]monsters, and creatures that are [B]not[/B] monsters? Well, since 'creatures that [B]are[/B] monsters' are 'creatures that [I]can[/I] be interacted with and potentially fought and killed', then 'creatures that are [B]not[/B] monsters' are 'creatures that [I]cannot[/I] be interacted with or fought and potentially killed'. Since 'creature' is not directly defined, and since 5e proudly uses 'natural language', then without a game definition we must assume that 'creature' has its natural language meaning:- Dictionary.com: "noun 1 an animal, especially a nonhuman 2 anything created, whether animate or inanmate 3 person, human being 4 an animate being" I'm confident that a chicken can be interacted with, and potentially fought and killed. I'm confident that a chicken satisfies one or more of the dictionary definitions of the word 'creature'. The [I]hex[/I] spell, like most spells, targets a 'creature'. The player, knowing that by the rules in the MM, by the dictionary definition, and by natural language, knows that a chicken is a creature. The DM says otherwise. Not because he believes it, or that he can point to a rule which shows otherwise, or could point to a dictionary which shows that chickens cannot be described as a creature, but because the DM doesn't like how the player is using a spell. Is the player being unreasonable about what 'creature' means, or is it the DM who's being unreasonable. Note that if the DM insists that chickens are [I]not[/I] creatures, then he needs to define what definition of the word 'creature' he is using for 5e. Then, that definition remains the same no matter the intentions or actions of any player or PC. Oh, chickens aren't creatures? Okay, chickens are immune to [I]fireball[/I]. "Each [B]creature[/B] in a 20-foot radius must make a Dexterity saving throw. A target takes 8d6 fire damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one." Shapechange: "You assume the form of a different [I]creature[/I] for the duration". If chickens aren't creatures, then you can;t [I]shapechange[/I] into one. Power Word: Kill: "You utter a word of power that compel one [I]creature[/I] you can see within range to die instantly". Chickens are immune to PWK. Why don't chickens rule the multiverse? Anyway, I [I]hex[/I] a puppy. Why? I'm conducting an in game experiment about which creatures are creatures and which aren't. If the DM says that chickens aren't creatures therefore cannot be [I]hex[/I]ed, then EITHER he is screwing me over, actually lying to me, OR he has such an esoteric definition of 'creature' that it would change his gameworld into a total farce, with PCs charging into combat in their chicken-suit armour, with [I]fireballs[/I] and [I]PWKs[/I] bouncing off. I though the motive for 'ruling' that chickens are [I]not[/I] 'creatures' was to [B]avoid [/B]absurdity? [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Hex Shenanigans
Top