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<blockquote data-quote="Libramarian" data-source="post: 6831777" data-attributes="member: 6688858"><p>Yeah I think this is the way to go. When I think of a hex crawl designed as a dungeon, I'm thinking of not just a willingness to include gonzo content but:</p><p>- map provokes interesting navigational choices</p><p>- restricted rests</p><p>- encounters might snowball into others. I will need some simple rules to handle other parties searching for the PCs</p><p>- no dungeons within the dungeon. Or nothing larger than a single session's play anyway. Larger dungeons might exist underneath cities or possibly via altered states of consciousness.</p><p></p><p>I have run the Isle of Dread before, with B/X. I liked the content but found it poorly designed. It's too big, too empty and it was an exercise in frustration to have the players try to map while also using the rules for getting lost. It's gotta be one or the other: either the players get a blank map but can fill it in hex-by-hex reliably, or they get a good map and sometimes get lost, and then reorient themselves with the map.</p><p>I'm going to try the 1 mile-per-hex scale, advocated by the 5e DMG. I like that at this scale you can assume that the PCs find whatever there is to find in the hex, and you can have different visibility ranges depending on terrain and weather. My hope is that this will make the exploration feel more concrete, rather than just wandering around until they bump into something interesting. A 5 or 6 mile hex is really quite huge. I'm going to shoot for less of a Lewis & Clark expedition feel and more Robin Hood stomping around Sherwood Forest. Nottinghamshire is in fact right about the size of a single sheet of paper with 1/4" 1 mile hexes.</p><p></p><p> When I asked about short and long rests I was thinking about 1 hour/8hours vs. 8hours/1 week. Seems to me long rests can't be given every night or the party won't come anywhere close to 6-8 encounters per day.</p><p></p><p>I think there's a logic to pairing high encounter difficulty variance with nightly long rests (the variance provides tension in the absence of resource attrition). I would like to control long rests though, so I think a rough measure of balance will be best. Easy enough: the farther away from civilization, the more dangerous the wilderness is.</p><p></p><p>Agreed.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Level 4-7. This was in B/X and AD&D though, not 5e. I've run the Isle of Dread, a bit of the Land of Nod hexcrawl and a hexcrawl I made around Hommlet and the Temple of Elemental Evil. I have the latter particularly in mind when I say that the hexcrawl seemed to interrupt the rhythm of the game. I placed various other adventures in the area for the PCs to tackle between excursions to the temple, each of which had some connection to every other adventure. It worked very well overall, but each adventuring site was so well-developed that the hexcrawl between them became extraneous. The campaign would have worked just as well, probably better, if travel between sites was handwaved. The PCs didn't discover anything of importance through exploration alone.</p><p></p><p>IME plot dominates exploration. I think for a true sandbox feel you really have to approach it resolutely anti-plot. But repetitive play + lack of plot = grind. How to avoid grind? The PCs need to be able to change the world, rather than just explore it.</p><p></p><p>"Things that will be quite a big deal if the PCs ever make it back with evidence of them."</p><p>Yep, that's part of the answer. Instead of an NPC giving the party a fetch quest to bring them back something from the wilderness, the party recognizes the value of something they find there (treasure, secrets, political intel), and heads to civilization to push their weight around.</p><p></p><p>Another way to avoid grind would be to have something happening on a timeline. You could introduce an orc invasion with random encounters: when an encounter is used, replace it with orc scouts. When you hit orc scouts, replace it with orc war band. When you hit war band replace it with an orc siege army. Or plot stuff on a calendar.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Libramarian, post: 6831777, member: 6688858"] Yeah I think this is the way to go. When I think of a hex crawl designed as a dungeon, I'm thinking of not just a willingness to include gonzo content but: - map provokes interesting navigational choices - restricted rests - encounters might snowball into others. I will need some simple rules to handle other parties searching for the PCs - no dungeons within the dungeon. Or nothing larger than a single session's play anyway. Larger dungeons might exist underneath cities or possibly via altered states of consciousness. I have run the Isle of Dread before, with B/X. I liked the content but found it poorly designed. It's too big, too empty and it was an exercise in frustration to have the players try to map while also using the rules for getting lost. It's gotta be one or the other: either the players get a blank map but can fill it in hex-by-hex reliably, or they get a good map and sometimes get lost, and then reorient themselves with the map. I'm going to try the 1 mile-per-hex scale, advocated by the 5e DMG. I like that at this scale you can assume that the PCs find whatever there is to find in the hex, and you can have different visibility ranges depending on terrain and weather. My hope is that this will make the exploration feel more concrete, rather than just wandering around until they bump into something interesting. A 5 or 6 mile hex is really quite huge. I'm going to shoot for less of a Lewis & Clark expedition feel and more Robin Hood stomping around Sherwood Forest. Nottinghamshire is in fact right about the size of a single sheet of paper with 1/4" 1 mile hexes. When I asked about short and long rests I was thinking about 1 hour/8hours vs. 8hours/1 week. Seems to me long rests can't be given every night or the party won't come anywhere close to 6-8 encounters per day. I think there's a logic to pairing high encounter difficulty variance with nightly long rests (the variance provides tension in the absence of resource attrition). I would like to control long rests though, so I think a rough measure of balance will be best. Easy enough: the farther away from civilization, the more dangerous the wilderness is. Agreed. Level 4-7. This was in B/X and AD&D though, not 5e. I've run the Isle of Dread, a bit of the Land of Nod hexcrawl and a hexcrawl I made around Hommlet and the Temple of Elemental Evil. I have the latter particularly in mind when I say that the hexcrawl seemed to interrupt the rhythm of the game. I placed various other adventures in the area for the PCs to tackle between excursions to the temple, each of which had some connection to every other adventure. It worked very well overall, but each adventuring site was so well-developed that the hexcrawl between them became extraneous. The campaign would have worked just as well, probably better, if travel between sites was handwaved. The PCs didn't discover anything of importance through exploration alone. IME plot dominates exploration. I think for a true sandbox feel you really have to approach it resolutely anti-plot. But repetitive play + lack of plot = grind. How to avoid grind? The PCs need to be able to change the world, rather than just explore it. "Things that will be quite a big deal if the PCs ever make it back with evidence of them." Yep, that's part of the answer. Instead of an NPC giving the party a fetch quest to bring them back something from the wilderness, the party recognizes the value of something they find there (treasure, secrets, political intel), and heads to civilization to push their weight around. Another way to avoid grind would be to have something happening on a timeline. You could introduce an orc invasion with random encounters: when an encounter is used, replace it with orc scouts. When you hit orc scouts, replace it with orc war band. When you hit war band replace it with an orc siege army. Or plot stuff on a calendar. [/QUOTE]
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