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Message: <blockquote data-quote="takyris" data-source="post: 1803424" data-attributes="member: 5171">Rodrigo might well have been saying that, because it's true, to an extent.  Being smarter does let you learn more things.  I'm sorry if this really bothers you.  It seems to really bother you.Um, dude, you realize that the only way I can counter this argument is by making statements that you're going to find insulting, right?  That's not exactly the most conducive way to handle a discussion.On the other hand, you said that I was mired in an intellectual superiority complex, which is sort of insulting, so what the hey.I'm going to say this very simply:All other things being equal, the smarter guy learns faster.Really.  I'm sorry.  Also, all other things being equal, the fatter guy uses more soap than the thinner guy.What you're doing, it would seem, by your personal family life, is taking people with naturally strong ability scores and comparing them to people with naturally weak ability scores, and then saying, "Haha, the people with high Int but low Strength did not do as well, Int be darned!"Which is completely and totally true... for the first couple ranks.  At level one, the Strong guy with no ranks in Climb is still equal to, or even better, the Weak guy with several ranks in Climb.  It's only after a lot of training (ie, higher levels) that skill ranks begin to matter more than natural ability.  This also happens in combat -- at level 1, Strength is probably going to help a character more than BAB.  At level 10, not so much.Regarding your family -- either they're smarter than you think they are, and you're just not giving them credit where credit is due (ie, a father who is a good carpenter(craft), a successful businessman(profession), acaring and devoted father (sense motive), a leader in his community (diplomacy), and an avid follower of sports and politics (knowledge:current events) might very well have a relatively high Int, even if he can't solve quadratic equations), or else you're seeing things through the lens of pride.And for the record, you're not the only one here who has worked with his hands.  Don't be a working-class elitist.  It's not polite.No.  Being Smart doesn't make you better at anything (except Int-based skills, obviously).  What it does do is give you the ability to take on more forms of learning simultaneously.  Important difference.Like Intelligence, which governs your natural capacity to Learn Stuff.Hm.  Now you're saying that people who don't pursue intellectual subjects or express artistic stuff aren't smart?  Oh.  That explains it.  For all your "this is intellctually superiority-complex-ist" stuff, you're actually being a bit of a snob.  If you don't think that learning several different physical trades simultaneously or learning several different athletic activities simultaneously requires a lot of smarts, then you're... um... wrong.  "Smart" is not limited to "Quadratic Equations".Um, no.  By the book, he has extra skill points.  Really.  It's right there.  If those two strong heroes are equal except for their intelligence, then the more intelligent guy will be able to pick up another skill.  Maybe it's Int-based -- the soldiers who, in their spare time, do distance learning courses, for example -- or maybe they just remember a bit more of their training (where they both have the same skills, but the more intelligent guy has them all at one rank higher, because he's learned more from practicing than the other guy).I understand that in sin-world, really dumb people still get really good at lots of things, but... no.  They don't.  Paying attention and learning physical trades or physical skills like Tumbling or Climbing requires some degree of intelligence.  You have to be smart in some teensy tiny way to understand why that last jump didn't go so well, and what you can do to fix it. In football, physical scores are key, but you also have to have the intelligence to figure out what the coach is telling you to do with your feet to set you up to break past the linemen.  If you're dumb, you're still working on that while the smart guy has gone "Okay" and moved on to figuring out how to get his hands right to beat the blocker.  Again, this assumes that the dumb guy and smart guy are otherwise equal.  If the dumb guy is stronger than the smart guy, the dumb guy starts out with a natural advantage, and if both the dumb and smart guy max out their ranks in the skill, the dumb guy maintains that natural advantage.  Intelligence isn't breaking this.  The only advantage the smart guy would have in this situation is the fact that he could max out his ranks and still have ranks left over to spend on something else, while the dumb guy pretty much lives his sports training and does nothing else, because he can't afford to get distracted.If they both have an Int of 16, the Strong Hero (human) goes from 3 to 6 per level.  The Smart Hero goes from 9 to 12 per level.  I don't see this as hurting the Smart hero in a big way.  And I've played a 16 Int Strong Hero.  It's nice to have skill points, sure, but it would have been nicer to have a higher Con.  It was a roleplaying choice, not a way for me to screw over another class.Perhaps you didn't read the part where I refuted this argument.  Hey, if you're arguing that way, then the 3rd Level Strong Hero with the Strength of 16 should get iterative attacks too, since his BAB+Str is +6!You're comparing things out of context and drawing flawed conclusions.That aside, look up the Smart Hero Talents "Exploit Weakness" and "Plan".  They don't give iterative attacks, but they do make the Smart Hero more effective at hitting things because he can find the best way to attack.  I did.  You didn't like it.  You're in the minority.And we're not giving the Strong Hero free points.  Assuming Point Buy, the Strong Hero's player decided to put a whole mess of points into Int, instead of Con or Dex, which are the most popular choices by far for "Where do I put points once I'm done putting points into Strength" for Strong Heroes created with Point Buy.If we're attacking "Free things for having high ability scores", and you're really into this, then I expect you to be marching proudly at the front of the "No free hit points for High Con" rally next week.  Why should people get free hit points just for having a high Con?  Doesn't that take away from the Tough Hero?  Think of all the poor Tough heroes, sitting lonely on the steps and watching Smart Heroes with Constitutions of 20 being carried on the backs of adoring crowds!  The Tough Hero's biggest strength is his hit points, but someone with a really high Con can have almost as many hit points -- this is so completely unfair as to defy description!</blockquote>

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