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<blockquote data-quote="thecasualoblivion" data-source="post: 4822410" data-attributes="member: 59096">Dungeon crawling maybe less so, but high body count? If you play the game as written, there is no avoiding the high body count. Death is random and unavoidable, and luck is the only savior. Smart play can only reduce the number of death rolls. As for Tolkien, his books have always been bigger than the entire S&amp;S library, and was inserted into D&amp;D by player demand. D&amp;D has always been in the hands of the people playing it, not Gary's. Gary has a voice, as does Howard and Tolkien, but the people sitting at the table have always been the loudest. Because Gary said so is a lame justification for anything, especially considering how early D&amp;D was the wild west, with everybody doing their own thing probably moreso than any time since.In my 2E gaming experience, thanks to DM intervention, the survival rate for 1st level characters defined as living until 5th level or until they leave the campaign, whichever comes first, was about 75-80%. The survival rate for 5th level characters and up was much higher, even before Raise Dead. Characters were given second and third chances by DM fiat, because players preferred playing one character over a long period of time. Aside from the introduction of negative HP, which I believe was an optional rule, the system was just as deadly. The presentation of the game and the expectations of the people playing it changed the game to match a different ideal, in contrast with the actual system.By player empowerment, I mean a combination of giving PCs game breaking powers well beyond what they had in earlier editions, while basing the system on the PCs and the DMs NPCs using the same rules on an even playing field. Players were given the power to bully DMs within the system for the first time.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="thecasualoblivion, post: 4822410, member: 59096"] Dungeon crawling maybe less so, but high body count? If you play the game as written, there is no avoiding the high body count. Death is random and unavoidable, and luck is the only savior. Smart play can only reduce the number of death rolls. As for Tolkien, his books have always been bigger than the entire S&S library, and was inserted into D&D by player demand. D&D has always been in the hands of the people playing it, not Gary's. Gary has a voice, as does Howard and Tolkien, but the people sitting at the table have always been the loudest. Because Gary said so is a lame justification for anything, especially considering how early D&D was the wild west, with everybody doing their own thing probably moreso than any time since. In my 2E gaming experience, thanks to DM intervention, the survival rate for 1st level characters defined as living until 5th level or until they leave the campaign, whichever comes first, was about 75-80%. The survival rate for 5th level characters and up was much higher, even before Raise Dead. Characters were given second and third chances by DM fiat, because players preferred playing one character over a long period of time. Aside from the introduction of negative HP, which I believe was an optional rule, the system was just as deadly. The presentation of the game and the expectations of the people playing it changed the game to match a different ideal, in contrast with the actual system. By player empowerment, I mean a combination of giving PCs game breaking powers well beyond what they had in earlier editions, while basing the system on the PCs and the DMs NPCs using the same rules on an even playing field. Players were given the power to bully DMs within the system for the first time. [/QUOTE]

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