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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Desdichado" data-source="post: 4822480" data-attributes="member: 2205">Yeah, see, I wondered if maybe that's what you meant.  So I do disagree after all.  How did players "bully" DMs because of something in the game itself?  That seems an odd and certainly unproveable assertion to make.  If DMs let themselves be bullied, I don't know how playing OD&D, BD&D, 1e, 2e, 3e, or 4e is going to have any effect on that.And that's different than today's game... how?If anything, the de-emphasizing, neutering and almost complete abandonment of alignment as a game element in 4e speaks much more strongly to this idea than anything in 1e or before.And that differs from today's game... how?  I mean, I get the detail of xp = gp, but what moral judgements does 3e or 4e make about who you decide to fight?Should it?  And what does that have to do with high fantasy or sword & sorcery?  That's a game element that does not map to a literary genre.  In other words, I could just as easily have said that in a more modern game, nothing in the system punishes you for pretending to kill the evil monster and conning the townspeople into giving you reward.  It's still a challenge overcome.  XP and loot.  Woot!  Or, nothing punishes you for killing the monster and then going back to the town and shaking them down for protection money.Just because you presented an arguably "high fantasy" example doesn't mean that a "sword & sorcery" example can't be just as easily implemented.  The only reason that's nto true for 4e is because they haven't gotten around to it yet.  :shrug:  3e had a Deities & Demigods book too, y'know.I'm not very familiar with 4e, so help me out here.  4e says this?  Even while it eliminates, say, alignment requirements for paladins making the classic anti-paladin a playable class right from the get-go?  Like I said; I'm not super familiar with 4e, but I suspect you're just flat-out wrong here.And if you mean to say that that's unique to OSR games, you're also flat-out wrong.That's a game element that has nothing whatsoever to do with sword & sorcery or high fantasy or any other genre either, for that matter.Hah!  And in 4e you can get those abilities without being good.  That's an example of the opposite of what you claim it is.Well, clearly.  I don't see how a single one of those is relevent to sword & sorcery, and for that matter, I think a good half of them are just flat out incorrect to boot.</blockquote>

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