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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Nail" data-source="post: 1579654" data-attributes="member: 224">Excellent: statistics.  Now we're getting somewhere.    <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/laugh.png"  class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing    :lol:" data-shortname=":lol:" />  The primary sticking point between us, if you'll allow me to condense things, is that combining 2 skills into one allows other classes to "cross-class" purchase it more cheaply...and that is a problem.  Is that a fair assessment?I disagree the above is a problem.  There are many skills that are quite useful in the RAW -- Spot, Escape Artist, and Tumble, for example -- that are cross-class for classes that might really want them.  Your "dexterity-based Ftr" for example, would really want that Tumble skill....especially given a Dex-based Ftr need for manueverability.Yet skill points are limited, as you've admitted, and you'll have to make those choices.  Taking max ranks in Sneak isn't a slam dunk, given those restrictions. A Rgr1/Ftr9, for instance, needs to spend most of his skill points (22 out of 34) to max out Sneak.....and what other skills could he get?Meanwhile, many classes get either Spot, or Sense (RAW: Listen) or both.  Many, many, *many* common PC foes get those skills.  Having your cc-Skill taking Ftr with ranks in Sneak ain't gonna tip over that game-balance apple cart.In fact, if you really want a Ftr or Wiz that can Sneak (and only do that one skill...), then more power to you.  Sounds like an interesting character concept!Absolutely.  No arguement here!Well now: it depends on the "schmuck", doesn't it?  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />   Check this out: 6 out of the 11 RAW base classes have Spot or Listen (or both!) as a class skill!  (And many, even most monsters get these skills.) And concidering either Spot or Listen is the core "encounter distance" mechanic, everyone that can take those skills should!  In either case, I'd like to see how you calculated those probabilities, and what numbers you used.  I'm assuming you had the "sneaker" roll two skill checks, and the "observer" roll two.   It does surprise me that there is no significant difference.In that, we are in absolute agreement.   <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f60e.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":cool:" title="Cool    :cool:"  data-smilie="6"data-shortname=":cool:" /></blockquote>

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