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Message: <blockquote data-quote="DrSpunj" data-source="post: 1589855" data-attributes="member: 994">Ah, right. Fair enough. Please keep it in mind, though, for any specific scenarios you create. The distance penalty will likely mitigate its effect, as you say, but keeping it in there effectively means everything is 20' closer. Perhaps we should put a disclaimer in there next to the bonus: "Objects detected with this skill are actually 20' farther away than you think they are."  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue    :p"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" /> Given your tables up above I'd say it's a losing proposition beyond the first few ranks for anyone who is only occasionally going to put the Sneak skill to any real use.Consider that with our House Rules your table says a difference of +0 is ~50% chance of either the Sneaker or the Detector succeeding (which is what it SHOULD be given two characters of equal ability; it really disturbs me that under the RAW the Detector has a 25% head start right off!). By paying for 5 ranks of Sneak (on a d20 that should be a flat +25%) that only drops the Detectors chances of success to 30%. So you've paid for 25% with 5 ranks but that only really nets you 20% more success (equivalent to 4 ranks). The payoff is worse going from 5 ranks to 10 ranks (another +25%) where you only drop the Detectors success from 30% down to ~15% meaning you paid 5 ranks to get the benefits of 3 ranks.For those PCs who are going to be trying to regularly Sneak past better and better Detectors, the payoff is worth it, IMO, but to anyone else I regularly game with I believe the opportunity cost would be too high.All this is, of course, paying cross-class cost for Sneak ranks. While AI brings up a good point with the fact that multiclassing/dipping into Bard, Monk, Ranger or Rogue looks better with a combined Sneak skill, IMO it isn't enough to get all that many people into doing it that weren't going to do it in the first place under the RAW because doing so fit their character concept.How many spellcasters want to push off higher level spells for a whole level of adventuring to get a few more ranks of Sneak at half price and the opportunity to buy them in future levels at cross-class cost because the maximum rank limit has been raised? Not too many, IMO, with Silence & Invisibility being such low level spells. YMMV.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />Then become a Shadowdancer!Thanks.DrSpunj</blockquote>

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