Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="ZenFox42" data-source="post: 6186714" data-attributes="member: 6746758">As a long-term RPG'er but new to 3.5/Pathfinder, I am trying to understand Stealth and I received these statements on a different thread : 1. "Note that HIPS does not allow you to enter Steath without Cover or Concealment"   [C/C = "Cover or Concealment" from now on]2. "Camouflage does not allow you to enter Steath while you're being observed"And everyone seemed to agree with those assumptions (and I'm going to argue that they ARE assumptions, until someone can quote an authoritative reference).So, here's the RAW for HIPS (emphasis mine) : "[A rogue] is a master at hiding in that terrain, and while within that terrain, she can use the Stealth skill to hide, even while being observed."And for Camouflage : "A ranger of 12th level or higher can use the Stealth skill to hide in any of his favored terrains, even if the terrain doesn't grant Cover or Concealment."My argument is : HIPS says you "can use the Stealth skill even while observed" - it says ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about whether you have C/C, so my interpretation is that C/C is irrelevant.  Try turning it around : "If you are being observed, you can use the Stealth skill" - period.  So that must mean with or without C/C (to my way of thinking).Likewise, Camouflage says you "can use the Stealth skill without C/C" - it says NOTHING about being observed, so I would say that observation does not matter.  Try turning it around : "If you have C/C, you can use the Stealth skill" - period.  So that must mean with or without being observed.So my question is : where did statements 1 and 2 above come from?  They seem to be firmly entrenched in everyone's mind, but can anyone refer to any *authority* (statements in the RAW, discussion in a WotC tutorial, etc.) that specifically states these ADDED limitations for HIPS and Camouflage, that are NOT part of their description?  This is what boggles my mind, that statements 1 and 2 are not mentioned in the descriptions of their special abilities, but everyone accepts them as true.Or perhaps that's the way the rules work? : the requirements/limitations for entering Stealth always take priority, and if a description of a special ability does not specifically mention or address that requirement, it still stays in effect?  That seems like a very bad way to run how your rules work, but if it's true, where is that written???  And does that apply to all skills, and all special abilities that modify the way a skill works?I'm very confused, any clarification will be greatly appreciated...</blockquote>

Verification