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<blockquote data-quote="silentspace" data-source="post: 1524715" data-attributes="member: 14316">It may be fruitless to use logic here, but let's try.1. Hiding after a ranged attack (Sniping) requires a move action.&nbsp; 2. Hiding &quot;while attacking&quot; incurs a -20 penalty.Applying both rules (and they both are core rules) would mean that when you actually make the ranged attack, you can attempt to remain hidden &quot;while attacking&quot; at a -20 penalty.&nbsp; If this check fails, you can immediately make another hide attempt as a move action, at the same -20 penalty.&nbsp; No?What happens if you have Hide In Plain Sight?You can still attempt to remain hidden &quot;while attacking&quot; at a -20 penalty.&nbsp; What about the second move-action &quot;Sniping&quot; attempt if the &quot;while attacking&quot; attempt fails?&nbsp; It seems clear that the second &quot;Sniping&quot; attempt is a special situation to the rule that once observed you cannot hide in plain sight (without the special ability).&nbsp; The basic rule is that you cannot hide while observed.&nbsp; Let's look at two examples.If you were making a melee attack while trying to remain hidden, and fail your -20 check, you are now being observed.&nbsp; You cannot attempt to hide again, unless you had the special ability Hide In Plain Sight.&nbsp; If you had that special ability, you could attempt to hide, per the rules (need to be close to shadows), with no penalty.&nbsp; If you were making a ranged attack while trying to remain hidden, and failed your -20 check, you are now being observed.&nbsp; You can attempt to hide again as a move action (following the Sniping rules) at a -20 penalty.&nbsp; However, if you had the Hide In Plain Sight ability, you could still Hide In Plain Sight without a penalty.&nbsp; Why would it be harder (by -20!) for a Shadowdancer to hide if he's hidden more than 10 feet away then if he's right next to his opponent?&nbsp; It seems that the intent is clear, Hide In Plain Sight does not incur a -20 penalty.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="silentspace, post: 1524715, member: 14316"] It may be fruitless to use logic here, but let's try. 1. Hiding after a ranged attack (Sniping) requires a move action. 2. Hiding "while attacking" incurs a -20 penalty. Applying both rules (and they both are core rules) would mean that when you actually make the ranged attack, you can attempt to remain hidden "while attacking" at a -20 penalty. If this check fails, you can immediately make another hide attempt as a move action, at the same -20 penalty. No? What happens if you have Hide In Plain Sight? You can still attempt to remain hidden "while attacking" at a -20 penalty. What about the second move-action "Sniping" attempt if the "while attacking" attempt fails? It seems clear that the second "Sniping" attempt is a special situation to the rule that once observed you cannot hide in plain sight (without the special ability). The basic rule is that you cannot hide while observed. Let's look at two examples. If you were making a [B]melee[/B] attack while trying to remain hidden, and fail your -20 check, you are now being observed. You cannot attempt to hide again, unless you had the special ability Hide In Plain Sight. If you had that special ability, you could attempt to hide, per the rules (need to be close to shadows), with no penalty. If you were making a [B]ranged[/B] attack while trying to remain hidden, and failed your -20 check, you are now being observed. You can attempt to hide again as a move action (following the Sniping rules) at a -20 penalty. However, if you had the Hide In Plain Sight ability, you could still Hide In Plain Sight without a penalty. Why would it be [B]harder [/B] (by -20!) for a Shadowdancer to hide if he's hidden more than 10 feet away then if he's right next to his opponent? It seems that the intent is clear, Hide In Plain Sight does not incur a -20 penalty. [/QUOTE]

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