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<blockquote data-quote="Steverooo" data-source="post: 845157" data-attributes="member: 9410">Hardly!...I learned this, painfully, with my 7th level Ranger, with Spot &amp; Listen maxed out, and Blind-fight, to boot!Spot DC 20 just lets you know that something invisible is out there... somewhere (how you can &quot;Spot&quot; that, without getting at least direction, the DMG doesn't say)!&nbsp; To get a general direction is DC 30.&nbsp; To get exact location is DC 40!&nbsp; This requires a roll of 20, being 17th or higher level, AND having Spot maxed out, as a Class Skill (a bit lower, with high WIS)!<img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f621.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":mad:" title="Mad&nbsp; &nbsp; :mad:"&nbsp; data-smilie="4"data-shortname=":mad:" /> So, a 7th level Ranger, with Spot as a Class Skill, and maxed out, can detect the GENERAL DIRECTION of an invisible opponent only on a roll of a natural 20, and still will not have enough information to target the correct square!&nbsp; <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue&nbsp; &nbsp; :p"&nbsp; data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" /> If you see a line of footprints appearing in the dust (Spot DC 20), it seems to me that that should be sufficient to target the invisible opponent.&nbsp; The rules, as written, are bad game design, IMHO.Invisibility should give a bonus (+10?&nbsp; +20?) to Hide, and a successful Spot should be all you need to know exactly where an Inviso-critter is.&nbsp; <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f631.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":eek:" title="Eek!&nbsp; &nbsp; :eek:"&nbsp; data-smilie="9"data-shortname=":eek:" /> Invisibility, as it stands now, is too powerful, completely negating the abilities of the PCs or their opponents.&nbsp; Blind-fight doesn't help, either, as it only helps you hit something once you know where it is!&nbsp; <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f621.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":mad:" title="Mad&nbsp; &nbsp; :mad:"&nbsp; data-smilie="4"data-shortname=":mad:" /> <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f644.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":rolleyes:" title="Roll eyes&nbsp; &nbsp; :rolleyes:"&nbsp; data-smilie="11"data-shortname=":rolleyes:" /></blockquote>

[QUOTE="Steverooo, post: 845157, member: 9410"] Hardly!... I learned this, painfully, with my 7th level Ranger, with Spot & Listen maxed out, and Blind-fight, to boot! Spot DC 20 just lets you know that something invisible is out there... somewhere (how you can "Spot" that, without getting at least direction, the DMG doesn't say)! To get a general direction is DC 30. To get exact location is DC 40! This requires a roll of 20, being 17th or higher level, AND having Spot maxed out, as a Class Skill (a bit lower, with high WIS)! :mad: So, a 7th level Ranger, with Spot as a Class Skill, and maxed out, can detect the GENERAL DIRECTION of an invisible opponent only on a roll of a natural 20, and still will not have enough information to target the correct square! :p If you see a line of footprints appearing in the dust (Spot DC 20), it seems to me that that should be sufficient to target the invisible opponent. The rules, as written, are bad game design, IMHO. Invisibility should give a bonus (+10? +20?) to Hide, and a successful Spot should be all you need to know exactly where an Inviso-critter is. :eek: Invisibility, as it stands now, is too powerful, completely negating the abilities of the PCs or their opponents. Blind-fight doesn't help, either, as it only helps you hit something once you know where it is! :mad: :rolleyes: [/QUOTE]

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